INTERVIEW: Barry Livingston chats with Ray Shasho about ‘The Importance of Being Ernie’

By Ray Shasho

Another CLASSIC ROCK MEETS CLASSIC TV Segment.

Actor Barry Livingston has played numerous roles during his resilient acting career. He’s currently filming in an upcoming movie entitled Argo and most recently completed roles in Hostel: Part III, Horrible Bosses and the TV series Castle and The Event. Livingston has appeared on Grey’s Anatomy, Desperate Housewives, Monk, NCIS, Everybody Hates Chris and Two and a Half Men. He’s even appeared in the movie The Social Network.
The irrepressible trouper amassed an impressive resume of characters throughout his acting career but none as memorable as the charming and witty nerdy kid with huge specs named Ernie Douglas from the TV sitcom My Three Sons. The ‘Ernie’ character may even be considered a pioneer for nerdism. In 1993 the ‘Ernie’ persona was rediscovered for the movie The Sandlot when child actor Chauncey Leopardi played Michael ‘Squints’ Palledorous. Leopardi’s portrayal was uncanny.

Livingston’s Mom was a fan dancer like the legendary Gypsy Rose Lee. Barry’s Dad inherited a Gaiety Theater on the infamous Block in Baltimore. After the invention of Television the business crumbled so the couple headed west for Hollywood to a new beginning.
Barry Livingston and older brother Stanley were born in Hollywood. The brothers grew up in a poor working class neighborhood. Barry found ways of entertaining himself including imitating the sinister big- eyed actor Peter Lorre and compulsively watching television within a few feet of the screen, an unhealthy habit that may have been partially responsible for his astigmatism.

Barry’s Mother was a spirited networker who never accepted the word ‘no’ as a final answer. Brother Stanley got his first break as an actor while attending swim school. The swimming pool/social club was shared by aspiring young actors and located on Hollywood Boulevard. One day a reporter asked a few young swimmers to ride their tricycles underwater across the bottom of the pool. The reporter wanted to shoot their photo through an underground window that peeked into the pool’s deep end. When the photos were published in the newspaper it caught the eye of the producer for the TV series Lassie. Stanley resembled the character Timmy on the show and became the perfect stunt double.

When their mom took Stanley to sign up at the Screen Actors Guild she discovered that anyone could walk in and join the Guild, even if you’ve had no previous acting experiences. She had an “Ah-ha” moment and decided that two working actors may help the family escape their impoverished lifestyle. Thus the Livingston Brothers acting careers were set in motion.

Author Barry Livingston’s impressive new memoir reveals the truths of becoming a child actor in Hollywood. The book is titled ‘The Importance of Being Ernie’ and was officially released on October 25th. It’s a great story and a must read. The book is penned by Barry himself without any outside help and is extremely well-written. I had the opportunity of speaking with Barry recently about his amazing life story.

Here’s my interview with Actor/Author/ TV Icon/ the incomparable ‘Ernie’ Barry Livingston.

Thanks Barry for being on the call today. I really enjoyed your book, it’s well written, it flows well and extremely entertaining. What compelled you into writing the story?

“You know probably a lot of things. On one level my dad always wanted to be a writer and never really finished anything. I think I’ve kind of had some sense of try to do for him what he couldn’t do. I also knew I had a lot of great stories about people that I’ve worked with over the years Jerry Lewis and Debbie Reynolds and my meeting with Elvis Presley and of course all the stuff on My Three Sons. It was just the right time and the Fiftieth Anniversary of The Sons was looming when I was writing it. Better now than never.”

Your Grandfather owned a Gaiety Theater on the infamous block in Baltimore?

“Yea I think his was called the Globe? He had more than one but yea that was part of the early days of the Livingston’s.  My mother’s first career and probably only career that I knew of was as a fan dancer in the theater that my dad owned. It was the Gypsy Rose Lee era and that was pretty salacious right on the edge of boarder line striptease fan dancing back in those days but by today’s standards that was pretty tame.”

So was sitting only a few feet from your television set to blame for your poor vision? 

“That’s what your mother always wants you to believe but it was probably going to happen regardless of TV or not but in those days you’d want to crawl inside the set. She’d say it’ll blind you you’re too close and of course she was right I developed an astigmatism but that was going to happen regardless.”

They actually thought that you had a seizure on the set while acting in one of your first roles right?

“Well they didn’t know when I first had the problem on Rally ‘Round the Flag Boys my eyes were inexplicably spinning around in my head so they didn’t know they just knew there was something wrong with this kid’s eyes. I was taken from the set and I remember it very clearly I was four years old and they took me to a nearby hospital and ruled out the seizure but then I went to see the eye doctor immediately after that and that’s where I got my glasses right then and there.”

Your mom was responsible for giving you a shot in show business, what were those early auditions like? 

“There were no rules at the time it was like a line around the block half the time it was like American Idol tryouts it was just mobbed with kids. Of course one of the problems was that they could only schedule auditions after three o’clock when kids got out of school so they had a real limited window of opportunity to interview kids from probably around three to six so they’d jam every stinking kid in the town going in for three lines on Sea Hunt you’d have a hundred kids that would be piled into some little waiting room.”
“Yea I recall that being a real big pain in the ass. I don’t particularly enjoy this part of it you’d rather be home playing handball with your friends at that point. But my mom twisted our arms to go get it done and luckily we started bagging some jobs. It would be very frustrating if you go through that whole effort and nothing comes of it.”

You began your TV career on the Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet it must have been pretty cool to watch Ricky Nelson’s rock and roll career skyrocket. 

“That was because even by that time I really liked Pop music and it was all the rage of Ricky Nelson and Paul Anca… Buddy Holly and Elvis. I actually got to see Ricky do some of his songs at Sock Hops it was always a gas it was always fun than a week later the show would air and the song would go to number one.”

One of the many wonderful moments in your new book is when you were shooting on the set of the Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet and you were suppose to say your line while eating ice cream but you didn’t because you were so fixated on eating the chocolate ice cream.

“Yea that was funny and again I can remember that very clearly but I just got so taken with the taste of that chocolate ice cream I just gobbled it down and when my cue for my line came I was just faced down in the ice cream. Ozzie was as much of an acting teacher then anybody that I ever had kind of laughed because he was that kind of a guy didn’t get all crazy you wasted film. He said you know Barry when people speak you have to look at them listen what they’re saying and when it’s your turn say what you have to say and then you can go back to eating the ice cream. So that’s exactly what I did I was eating the ice cream listening and the second my line came up I looked up said it and went right back to eating my ice cream which is perfect because that’s what a six year old kid would do. He saw that I had talent so I was a natural at that point.”

But you were a really smart kid and extremely adultlike. I thought it was fascinating that Fred De Cordova(directed My Three Sons) included you in his circle as if you were one of the guys, like when he took you to a baseball game at Dodger stadium with Jack Benny.

“Fred and I had a very special relationship I became like his right hand man. He was probably in his mid 50’s and never had kids just recently got married so I became his buddy and it was a great time. He was the funniest man in the world and then he had great funny friends so what more could you ask for.”

Fred De Cordova was a genius and he accomplished so much on The Tonight Show. 

“He was a very well connected fellow he just knew all the biggest most powerful people in and out of show business mainly because he was an extremely witty-witty man and he was talented at what he did but he also was just loved by the people around him so he was perfect for Carson at that point in his life. He knew Kings… Movie Stars they all knew him and he knew everybody’s home phone number. So you couldn’t ask for a better guy than Fred to run The Tonight Show at that time.”

I wasn’t aware that Ryan O’ Neal was originally cast in the role of Robbie on My Three Sons?

“Yea he was first cast for the pilot and I guess it was Fred who thought he wasn’t up to their comedy standards and they decided to recast and brought in Don Grady who was a Mousketeer. And Bobby Diamond who was actually on Fury before that was cast and he couldn’t come to terms and I think they wanted him. He was fired he just didn’t like the terms that they offered him then they hired Ryan O’Neil and they eventually wound up with Don.”

Barry, talk about your limo excursion with Elvis Presley.

“Yea it was actually around the Paramount movie lot… it was surreal obviously I was a big fan because I knew Ricky Nelson and that was rock and roll and Elvis was the undisputed king of rock and roll although I didn’t particularly care for what he was doing with music I liked his early stuff and even at that point I wasn’t into Blue Hawaii but still it was Elvis. But it was out of the blue I just happened to see his limo and didn’t know it was his and suddenly he’s standing behind you. Next thing he says do you want to take it for a little test drive you want to hop in and check out the TV. And you didn’t have any great exchange of ideas about the world rather you’re sitting there with the king of rock and roll for five minutes and it was very interesting and very surreal.”

“I always thought one of the funnier My Three Sons is that they were trying to find out who would be a great English rock and roll star for an episode. Somebody would come to Bryant Park and I loved The Stones at that time and thought Brian Jones was the coolest. You didn’t really know what his lifestyle was because it was all sanitized in the newspapers so I said you’ve got to get Brian Jones see if you can get him. I think they actually made some effort to contact him or his management and yea I don’t think they even got a reply. But it would have been an amazing inside joke that Brian Jones with all of his drug problems and hedonistic lifestyle suddenly comes to stay with the Douglas family. That would have been unintentionally funny.”

Besides The Rolling Stones who were some of your favorite rock groups while growing up in California?

“The Yardbirds I was learning to play the guitar with Jeff Beck who was a hero… I guess Eric Clapton before that although even with the Yardbirds you didn’t know Eric Clapton as Eric Clapton until he became Eric Clapton but I knew he was the lead guitar player before Jeff Beck in the Yardbirds and Jimmy Page. In America…Lovin’ Spoonful… Simon and Garfunkel of that era those were the people that I thought were the great stars and great artists. Prior to that Buddy Holly and some of the blues guys I like B.B. King and Muddy Waters… Bo Diddley. And I’m a music fan today… I like Arcade Fire… Wilco and my son is a musician so I hear about a lot of new bands and I love a lot of the stuff that’s happening today.”

You’re an actor who loved rock and roll music growing up in California in the 60’s.  I guess it was inevitable that you were going to be hanging out with people who did drugs. And you mentioned in your book that you were one of them. 

“You know it was a phase honestly there was an era in Hollywood and I probably fell victim to it as many did. If you weren’t a partier if you weren’t part of the new Hollywood that they called it which was the era of Jack Nicholson… Michael Douglas and Spielberg and all these people that were the new wave of Hollywood and part of that really in the 1970’s involved drugs and the studio heads themselves were taking part. You kind of were looked at as like you’re kind of that old school you’re not hip like us so there was some odd pressure I mean you could have said no and I didn’t. You could’ve but I kind of wanted to be part of that new wave and part of that was a permissiveness that perhaps was the old thought ill conceived but that was the era. And being a young man of twenty years old with some money sure that’s all part of it all wrapped up together.”

What did your kids say when they read about your past drug use?

“I didn’t have to write it to tell them about my experiences with things like that and I tried to be honest only because I figured I didn’t want to be in a position where I said no I never did any of that and then somebody comes along somewhere someway and says oh you use to do all these things and I’d come off looking like a big liar to my kids. So you have to make a decision do you soft sell that whole era or do you just be completely honest and say this is what it was and I did it. Honestly I’m not sure if it was a great idea it’s just what happens you go through a phase. So I’d rather try to put it in perspective than say no then have to look like a liar and put it in perspective.”

“The danger is people use that against you and somehow it gets all blown out of proportion today and I hope it doesn’t but in the real perspective of it all that was a very short period of my life but it was a very informative time and instructed me hey here’s the danger what do I do to get out of it and so those are the challenges of life.”

I talked with your Brother Stanley about how the media usually blames Hollywood for corrupting child actors usually leading to grave consequences.  I’m one to disagree I think you’re probably going to try drugs regardless of what Hollywood is doing and no one is holding a gun to your head. 

“It’s the people in the business that you surround yourself with and it’s your peer group. At that age peer group are much more persuasive than your parents or your friends… those are your friends. In that era my peer group was experimenting with all those kind of things it was part of the Hollywood scene. I jumped in just like about everyone else did and fortunately didn’t wallow in it… in a way it wasn’t repairable and moved on.”

I loved how you described your encounter and infatuation with actress Myrna Loy in your book.

“I grew up watching in LA they use to have a thing called the million dollar movie and they would play old classic films from the forties and thirties and one of those was the Thin Man just a great old movie to me and she was beautiful.”

How old was she when you met her?

“Probably mid to late 50’s but she was a very attractive woman even at that stage of her life and just the whole evening a little bit of wine and my infatuation with her and trying to be debonair and suave.”

You have other siblings that we never hear about, talk about Bill, Michelle and Gene?

“My Brother Bill is an engineer for an oil company and went to West Point. He was adopted from birth very successful and is in Azerbaijan at the moment. He’s been working for years with BP down in San Pedro which is in the southern part of LA and he’s moved to Azerbaijan for the company.”

“My sister Michelle again she sort of dabbled a little bit in Television I think my mom tried to keep that going for a little bit she was actually in a show called Toma which was a precursor to Baretta. Toma was Tony Musante it was the same show. He was a detective adopted all kinds of bizarre disguises and he didn’t want to do it after awhile. Anyway she played his daughter in the Toma series. She was really young probably 7 or 8 years old. When he left the show that’s when the job went and Robert Blake stepped in and they renamed it Baretta. So she lives in Texas and is very successful in the Real Estate world.”

“My Brother Gene had gotten quite successful in a computer business. He partnered with a buddy in the 80’s and they’ve become one of the first computer companies in LA that had the where with all to setup networks for big companies and some of their early clients were Aaron Spelling…Walt Disney and so they’re still doing that business today.”

How are your kids? I know your Son Spencer plays in a band.

“They are doing quite well the band is called The Alternates. He’s just a really great songwriter and they just recorded an EP and he’s got a solo thing that he’s doing and actually has three shows in New York he’s going to be doing when I’m back in New York for the release of the book. They just played at a club out here called The Satellite and I wouldn’t be surprised if something occurs in his whole ambition he’s very good. He just wrote a song called Occupy Wall Street.”

“My Daughter Hailey is just out of high school about a year out. They’re going through baby steps of who they’re going to become and what they want to be. But they’re great kids.”

 I’ve also got to mention Karen your better half.

“Well that’s the key to my life we’ve been together for over 30 years. She gets me and I get her and we still amuse each other. She’s a Physical Therapist.”

Barry I admire the fact that you’ve written your own book. Many celebrities say they’ve written a book but in reality hire a professional Ghost Writer.

“Yea I’ve written a lot personally and some more like screenplays and things so it wasn’t like pulling teeth for me to sit down and do something like that and I’m very pleased with the way it came out. I was very thrilled that when I sent it off to somebody in New York that I heard back two days later and they said they wanted to publish it. I got the right guy. It was the right time the right person. I sent it to an editor through a friend that made a connection for me and he said yea send it to this guy. I had sent out a few query letters and got nowhere. This guy said send it to him a guy named Gary Goldstein from Kensington and he knew everything else about my career too. It was amazingly fast… but he read it and loved it.”

So where can we watch Barry Livingston in motion picture or on television soon?

“I’m starting work on this movie tomorrow called Argo with Ben Affleck directing in it and starring in it a lot of great people Bryan Cranston and Alan Arkin and then I did an episode of Castle I think it’s going to be out on Halloween night. Suburgatory I did an episode of that and the Hallmark Channel I did a movie for them that’s coming out pretty soon called Love’s Christmas Journey. I did a little thing for this TV show called Supah Ninjas for Nickelodeon …and then the book."

Barry, thank you so much it’s been a real pleasure chatting with you today. Good luck with the new book and your acting career.

“Thank you Ray it’s been real fun.”

Order Barry Livingston’s wonderful new bookcalled The Importance of Being Ernie released by Kensington Press (Citadel Publishing) available to purchase at Amazon.com.

The Importance of Being Ernie official website http://theimportanceofbeingernie.com/
Barry Livingston Film and Television credits http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0515225/
My Three Sons http://www.museum.tv/eotvsection.php?entrycode=mythreesons
Spencer Livingston and the Alternates band website http://www.thealternatesband.com/

Order author/columnist Ray Shasho’s great new book called Check the Gs –The True Story of an Eclectic American Family and Their Wacky Family Business today at amazon.com, iuniverse.com, barnesandnoble.com or border.com. Order now for the holidays!
 
Normalcy is a myth and anyone who tells you differently isn't very normal."Check the Gs" is a memoir from Ray Shasho who tells of his own offbeat upbringing working in the family business art gallery, from a young age. Of Cuban and Syrian descent, he tells a very American story of coming from everything, seeing everything, walking the line of the law and much more. A fun and fast paced memoir, "Check the Gs" is a worthwhile addition to many a memoir collection. ~~ MIDWEST BOOK REVIEW     

Contact Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com

Orlando Calling Festival REVIEW/ INTERVIEW with Doobie Brothers Pat Simmons

 By Ray Shasho


REVIEW: The Citrus Bowl in Orlando hosted a (2) day music festival over the weekend labeled Orlando Calling 2011. The event was contrived by Managing Director Melvin Benn of Festival Republic a UK Company distinguished for the Reading and Leeds Festivals. The company signed a three year contract in Orlando so we can probably expect to see another festival next year.
Saturday’s Day 1 lineup included The Killers, The Raconteurs (Featuring Jack White of The White Stripes), The Roots, Drive By Truckers, Less Than Jake, The Pixies, O.A.R., The Avett Brothers and over (20) other performers sharing the spotlight on five different stages.

I attended Sunday’s Day 2 event hosted by headliners Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band, Kid Rock, Blake Shelton, The Doobie Brothers, Warren Haynes Band, Chris Isaak, Buddy Guy, Robert Randolph and The Family Band, Dwight Yoakam plus more than (15) other great acts.

After chatting with singer/songwriter/guitar virtuoso Pat Simmons of The Doobie Brothers a few days prior to their Orlando Calling appearance regarding the Festival headliners, Simmons eloquently stated “We’re all headliners.”
The Music Festival kicked off around noon and the first order of business by many of the early arrivals was to plot out the day with their show schedules and map out what performers they were going to see. The eclectic schedule of talent certainly had something for everyone -from Bluegrass to Classic Rock.

The weather cooperated and that was a key to the event because everyone did plenty of walking throughout the day trekking from stage to stage. Parking was relatively easy and the event was extremely organized. The gigantic 'Main Stage' was inside the Citrus Bowl. The other four stages were positioned at convenient locations within walking distance of the stadium. Although pricey, food, drink and spirits were conveniently accessible throughout the event. The estimated crowd count for Sunday’s showcase was somewhere between 25-30 thousand people and security was extremely evident throughout the day. Saturday’s crowd estimates were much lower.

An extremely important point about this festival which can make or break the integrity of any festival or concert is that the sound system at every stage site was superb. Fantastic acoustics, the music sounded great no matter where you walked to catch a show and even more apparent inside the Citrus Bowl stadium. Although the ‘Main Stage’ was ‘high and mighty’ the (2) gigantic Jumbotron screens comfortably accommodated the large crowd.

At 2:35 the first big cheers from the audience were exhibited when the Warren Haynes Band took over the ‘Main Stage.’ Haynes is an exceptional Blues/ Rock guitarist who played with The Allman Brothers Band, The Dead and with his own Southern Rock jam band Gov’t Mule. Haynes has a great new solo release available called Man In Motion.

At 4pm it was Classic Rock champs The Doobie Brothers turn to rock the house on the ‘Main Stage.’ A considerable increase in population throughout the stadium was evident when they took the stage. Pat Simmons, Tom Johnston and John Mcfee led the band with all the crowd pleasers including “Clear as the Driven Snow,” Rockin’ Down The Highway,” “Black Water,” “Listen To The Music,” “Jesus Is Just Alright,” “Minute by Minute” along with great new tunes from their latest release World Gone Crazy produced by the legendary Ted Templeman. The Doobie Brothers are always rock solid and were among the top three performances of the day.

At 5pm I meandered over to the ‘Authentic Stage’ to catch legendary Chicago Bluesman Buddy Guy. Guy drew a huge crowd to the second largest stage at the event called “Authentic Stage.” He genuinely had fun with his audience and dazzled the onlookers with his extraordinary one handed fingering techniques. He teased the audience near the end of his show with guitar riff bits from legendary rocker’s Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton and John Lee Hooker and leaving the crowd wanting more. It was a rare and wonderful treat to witness the great Buddy Guy on Sunday. Buddy played several cuts from his new release Living Proof including “74 Years Young” which exhilarated the crowd. Guy said he was 74 when the song was released but he’s 75 now, so he updated the lyric to reflect his present age.

At 6:15pm following Buddy Guy it was Chris Isaak looking very Ricky Nelson-ish while sporting a pompadour. Isaak and his band were very animated and tight. They’re a great group of musicians who appear regularly in Vegas and Branson. The bands highlight for the evening was Isaak’s romantic hit single “Wicked Game” from his 1989 release Heart Shaped World.”

At 7:05pm it was back to the ‘Main Stage’ and Michigan native Kid Rock. He was definitely the most animated performer of the evening and so was his fans. Rock performed a longer set and was the only one to feature pyrotechnics. The 40 year old Kid Rock performed admirably with his mix of hip-hop, country and rock. Although a crowd pleaser Kid Rock was not part of the top (3) performances for the day. 

At 9:20pm on the ‘Main Stage’ following Kid Rock’s performance was fellow Michiganian Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band. It was a rare opportunity to witness Seger’s only Florida appearance. Bob Seger and his band were impeccable. The band played a 90 minute condensed version of their normal setlist. Seger’s soulful gruff trademark pipes seemed to have improved with age. The Silver Bullet Band was supported by Grand Funk Railroad drummer/vocalist Don Brewer and ex Funk keyboardist Craig Frost. Longtime Seger bandmates Chris Campbell (Sarasota native) on bass and Alto Reed on Sax rounded out an unblemished band of seasoned musicians. Bob Seger & his Silver Bullet band were at the top of their game and his faithful audience responded accordingly. Seger is an incredible musician on stage, singing and playing electric/acoustic guitar and piano. Bob and his band entertained their ardent fans with classic FM hits like “Night Moves,” “Against The Wind,” “Hollywood Nights” and the surreal ballad “We’ve Got Tonight.” Kid Rock also joined Seger on stage for a rendition of “Real Mean Bottle” their collaboration from Face The Promise. Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band’s performance at the inaugural 2011 Orlando Calling Festival was superlative.

All the artists at the festival were exceedingly entertaining. Personal favorites were Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band, The Doobie Brothers, Buddy Guy and the Warren Haynes Band.

Blues Traveler were scheduled to perform but cancelled.


INTERVIEW: I had the opportunity to interview Doobie Brothers legendary guitarist and songwriter Patrick Simmons a few days before the 2011 Orlando Calling festival.

Pat Simmons was introduced to future Doobie Brothers bandmates Tom Johnston and John Hartman by Moby Grape’s Skip Spence in 1969 forming the foundation to what would eventually be one of the most esteemed classic rock bands in history.  

Pat is usually identified as the Doobie Brother with the longest hair. His heartfelt vocal styles are significant to the bands success. He’s an important musician with eclectic musical styles and tastes. Some of his many compositions with the band include the classic “Black Water” (which became their first number one hit) “South City Midnight Lady,” “Dependin’ On You,” “Dangerous,” “Echoes Of Love” and “Clear as the Driven Snow.” His on stage presence is both surreal and overwhelming during his solo of “Jesus Is Just Alright.”

Here’s my interview with singer/songwriter/guitar virtuoso/Doobie Brother/ Pat Simmons

Hi Pat thanks for being on the call today, are you guys ready to rock the Citrus Bowl on Sunday?

“That’s what we do we rock out.”

You and your wife Cristine are biking enthusiasts and I was fascinated when I heard that you supported her on a cross-country race?

“Last year she did a ride from Kitty Hawk North Carolina to Santa Monica California on a 1915 Harley. It was a race for 95 year or older bikes. She had one of the newer ones 95 years old.”

Was there a lot of maintenance and upkeep during the race to keep it moving?

“Definitely a lot of preparation and then once we got it going we had to maintain it throughout  the run of 16 days and it was pretty much wrenching on it every day we had the adjustments and things did break and we had to fix them.”

Did you get to follow her for the entire race?

“Yes I was on the run and started a support crew. It was cool a once in a lifetime kind of thing and never been done since 1915. They are doing another run but it’s for 1929 and earlier.”

You and your wife ride bikes together all over the country, some states make it mandatory to wear a helmet and states like Florida don’t as long as you carry insurance. Do you think bikers should wear a helmet while riding?  

“I’ve always been one of those people to let the individual decide but that being said I recommend people wear a helmet when they ride. I’ve been down a few times and I’ve got friends that are still here because they were wearing a helmet so there is evidence there that it can save your life. Most times people are going down 40 or 50 miles an hour and that’s not even going fast a lot of people are driving 70 or 75 and you hit that pavement without a helmet and its pretty much over. But if you hit it with a helmet you could slide on the road and you can live. When I was younger I was always one of those guys living in California and we didn’t have a helmet law and I didn’t have to wear a helmet and by the grace of God nothing ever happened to me but I’ve had several friends that have been burned and having a helmet on saved their lives. I kind of believe it now.”

I think the Gary Busey incident may have changed a lot of minds about wearing a helmet too.

“Gary Busey was hotdoggin’ around.He drove his bike out of the Harley shop across the street dumped his bike and hit his head. That’s exactly how it happened because I have a friend that was standing there when he rode his bike out of the shop dumped his bike didn’t even get down the road he went across the street going the other way and fell down and hit his head. So hello... learn to ride a motorcycle before you get out there.”

I’ve always wanted to ride but leaned more towards driving sports cars, so this may be a dumb question, why is a Harley Davidson usually the bike of choice and why wouldn’t you want to ride a lighter bike?   

“Well it just happens to be the one a lot of people like. There is a lot to be said for a substantial amount of weight underneath you when you’re going down the road and you want to stop or there’s some kind of emergency turn that you’ve got to make and having the weight on the road is a lot more stable than a lot of the lighter bikes that tend to not want to stop as easily when you have to hit the brakes. It doesn’t have the weight to hold the road. If you’re going for long distances it’s a lot more comfortable on a larger bike you’ve got room to stretch out a little bit you’re in a position where you’re more comfortable a lot of smaller bikes they have more like cafe type handle bars so you're bent forward and in a long period of time if you’ve got a long ride it could be tough on your back to be bent forward like that so if you’re sitting up straight or back a little bit it’s more comfortable for a long ride. Also lower revving smaller bikes have a higher rev pattern so that the actual sound that’s coming out of the bike over a long period of time is more fatiguing in itself the sound believe it or not can be fatiguing so having a little lower rev is more comfortable to your ear and to the feel of the bike and it doesn’t have as much vibration. Once again larger bikes don’t have that vibration factor quite as much on a rubber mounted engine although most of them are rubber mounted these days. But there is a lot to be said for that comfort."

"I think a lot of the reasons why people ride a Harley is there is a mystique to riding Harley’s that has been passed down through the years and a lot of people like that.”

Do you have a nice collection of bikes?

“I got a few bikes but mostly I ride one bike. I’ve got a FLH that I ride that is kind of my main ride.”

I guess we should start talking about music, I’ve asked this question a lot but still find it remarkable how some of the greatest guitar players in the world can create music without learning to read it.

“I think a good many guitar players have taken lessons and learned to read music but when you’re playing  modern music or music that you’ve written or that others have written that you’ve worked to put the arrangements together you don’t need to read you hear it and you feel it and you understand what’s going on without having to look at the notes. The notes are before you on the fingerboard so we all know kind of relatively what the notes are that we’re playing they’re just not written out so in a sense you’re reading in a different way.”

The Doobie Brothers have had incredible staying power despite numerous personnel changes in the band over the years and drastic changes in the music industry. Do you think constant touring may have contributed to the bands success?

“Well I think we’re fortunate more than anything I don’t know I wish I knew a formula that I could tell everybody I don’t think there is we’ve been kept alive by the music as much as anything we’ve been able to continually create and I think that has something to do with a certain aspect of the enjoyment being able to come up with new music and that’s enjoyable I think that kind of keeps the juices flowing. And then we have a lot of great songs that we’ve written through the years I kind of can say that because I haven’t written them all but I’ve written some of them and I’m a fan of every writer in this band. I’ve really appreciate the fact that we have some good songs to play that are fun to play and you don’t really get tired of playing them because we have that connection with the audience that makes the songs new and brings them back to life every night and I think that is part of it. And that we just have an audience out there still which you’ve got to give credit to the audience for hanging with us all this time and appreciating the music. It’s a combination of things I think and part of it is luck and good fortune and being in the right place at the right time we’ve been lucky that way and I don’t take it for granted everyday I’m grateful.”

Black Water is such an alluring tune. It doesn’t matter what part of the world your living in there’s something about the song that appeals to everyone. What inspired you to write Black Water?

“Probably my experiences of travelling the south and a lot of my roots are in country blues –ragtime- finger style guitar a little bit of country a little bit of jazz so it kind of has little bits of all that stuff and the lyrical content is really about New Orleans and the Mississippi River and that sort of lifestyle. Just being in New Orleans I wrote a lot of the lyrics when I was down there riding a streetcar and hanging out at the French Quarter and Jazz bars.”

Did you go down there after Katrina?  

“I did yea I was just there actually a few days ago and I go down there quite often and hang out a lot. It’s one of my favorite towns... period. I love the people and the lifestyle so the song is a commemoration of that city more than anything.”

One of my favorite Doobie Brothers tunes is another song penned by you called “Clear As The Driven Snow.   

“That was a song about the drug culture in the early 70’s. I was trying to let go of it and that was kind of what the song was about... and I did.”

The Doobie Brothers latest release is called World Gone Crazy featuring the great Ted Templeman your former producer. It’s a wonderful album and I recommend it highly.

“He’s been retired for quite a long time so it was pretty special to have him back in the studio with us and we really enjoyed doing it.”

I know you worked with Michael McDonald and Willie Nelson on World Gone Crazy. Future projects?

“Ted and I are still collaborating we wrote three songs together on this record and we’re still writing together right now and Willie and I I’m sure will collaborate on some more stuff. I spoke with David Crosby and talked with him on working on a song with him. I’ve always liked his style so we’ll see what happens with that."

Well Pat, thank you so much for spending some time with me today.

“Thank you Ray.”

I’ll see you at the Orlando Calling Festival on Sunday.

“Just tap me on the shoulder if you see me.”

I want to thank Caroline Stegner of D. Baron Media Relations for setting up this interview.

Doobie Brothers official website http://www.doobiebros.com/
Patrick Simmons musical credits on allmusic.com http://www.allmusic.com/artist/patrick-simmons-p20546/credits

Order columnist/author Ray Shasho’s great new book called CHECK THE Gs –The True Story of an eclectic American Family and Their Wacky Family Business. Order now for the holidays at amazon.com, iuniverse.com, barnesandnoble.com or borders.com. You’ll live it!


“I found Check the Gs to be pure entertainment, fantastic fun and a catalyst to igniting so many memories of my own life, as I too am within a few years of Ray. So to all, I say if you have a bit of grey hair (or no hair), buy this book!  It’s a great gift for your “over-the-hill” friends, or for their kids, if they are the history buffs of younger generations trying to figure out why we are the way we are.”~~Pacific Book Review

Contact Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com

‘Dangerous Dan’ Toler BENEFIT headlines Dickey Betts-Bonnie Bramlett- Blackhawk

 By Ray Shasho

This coming Saturday and Sunday November 12th and 13th will be “The biggest and best concert this area has seen for a long a time” says Mark Serio guitarist and organizer for the benefit to support ‘Dangerous Dan’ Toler and raise awareness for ALS or better known as Lou Gehrig’s disease. Guitarist ‘Dangerous Dan’ Toler is best known as a member of The Allman Brothers Band, The Gregg Allman Band and Dickey Betts & Great Southern. Earlier this year Toler announced that he had the disease. Recently his condition has worsened and now has trouble speaking.
His younger brother David “Frankie” Toler drummer and former member of The Allman Brothers Band died earlier this year from a prolonged illness.
Last year I covered an event hosted by “Sarasota’s Littlest Heroes” (who were many of the same organizers) to help raise money for two year old Emalynn Roberts diagnosed with Chronic Inflammatory Polyneuropathy. The concert was held at the same location and headlined by Dickey Betts & Great Southern. The event was a huge success.

The ‘Dangerous Dan’ Toler benefit is promising to be a monumental event. Mark Serio says “The concert is going to be huge.” Musicians are flying in from everywhere to help their friend and fellow musician ‘Dangerous Dan’ Toler.
The event takes place on Hershberger Ranch at 13010 Fruitville Rd in Sarasota just 7.3 miles east of I-75 on the right. It’s two full days of non-stop music –including free Barbeque, silent and live auctions and raffles. Online auction at http://www.dantolerbenefit.myevent.com/3/auction.htm
BYOB or beer is available to purchase at the event. The festivities begin at 12pm and ends at 11pm each night.
Tickets are $20.00 for a one day pass and only $35.00 for both dates. There are also VIP tickets available. Purchase tickets here or at the door on the day of the concert. http://www.dantolerbenefit.myevent.com/3/online_payment.htm

Call Mark Serio at (941)228-5099 for further information about the event.

Day 1- Saturday’s music schedule kicks off at 12pm with Cowboy Keith.

Later in the evening Bonnie Bramlett and harp virtuoso T.C. Carr take the stage.
Bonnie Bramlett was part of the legendary husband and wife duo Delaney & Bonnie. Delaney & Bonnie & Friends collaborated on stage with legendary “Friends” George Harrison, Eric Clapton, Leon Russell, Dave Mason, Rita Coolidge, Gram Parsons, Duane and Gregg Allman and King Curtis to name just a few.

In 1969 Delaney & Bonnie supported Eric Clapton’s short-lived Blind Faith band on the road. Their certified gold third album On Tour with Eric Clapton was their most commercially successful release. In 1970 Delaney & Bonnie & Friends participated in the Festival Express tour (originally billed as the Transcontinental Pop Festival) by train across various Canadian cities with The Grateful Dead, Janis Joplin and The Band. Festival Express was a 2003 documentary film about the 1970 train tour including concert footage across Canada. Also in 1970 the band appeared at The Strawberry Fields Festival in front of an estimated 100,000 people in Ontario, Canada.

Delaney & Bonnie divorced in 1973 after releasing their final album D&B Together. The album featured such illustrious artists as Steve Cropper, Eric Clapton, Tina Turner, Duane Allman, Dave Mason, Leon Russell and Billy Preston.
Delaney & Bonnie’s most memorable hits were Dave Mason’s penned “Only You Know and I Know” and “Never Ending Song of Love.” Bonnie Bramlett also co-wrote “Let It Rain” with Eric Clapton.
Bonnie enjoyed continued success as a solo composer and recording artist while sharing her amazing vocals with Elvin Bishop, Stephen Stills, Little Feat and The Allman Brothers Band throughout the 70’s and 80’s.
In 1979 Bonnie Bramlett participated in the acclaimed Havana Jam Festival in Cuba.
Under a new married name Bonnie Sheridan, she became an actress with an ongoing role on the TV sitcom Roseanne from 1991-95.

Delaney Bramlett died in 2008.

Bonnie Bramlett’s latest album is called ‘Beautiful’ and available at Rockin’ Camel Music.

The Dan Toler Band follows Bonnie Bramlett and then headliner’s Dickey Betts & Great Southern take the stage at around 8:30pm.

Dickey Betts, a Bradenton native, had formed a band in Florida with bassist Berry Oakley.One night they jammed with another local group featuring Duane and Gregg Allman, and The Allman Brothers Band formed in 1969. After the death of Duane Allman in 1971, Betts became the bands sole guitarist. 
Dickey Betts was inducted along with the rest of The Allman Brothers Band into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1995.

Day 2 –Sunday’s music itinerary will feature The Boogiemen opening at 12pm.

The afternoon lineup includes a rendition of 50’s rock and roll icon’s The Platters recreated by Wilson Williams and his Platters.

The Artimus Pyle Band will take the stage late afternoon. Artimus Pyle was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2006 as a member for the Southern Rock /Classic Rock radio mainstay Lynyrd Skynyrd.

Blackhawk (The Outlaws) are the headliners for Sunday evening and will be performing at 8:30pm.
There may even be surprise guests performing during the two-day event.

For a complete listing of performers appearing at the ‘Dangerous Dan’ Toler two-day benefit concert go to http://www.dantolerbenefit.myevent.com/3/miscellaneous2.htm

The event is this coming Saturday and Sunday November 12th and 13th on Hershberger Ranch at 13010 Fruitville Rd in Sarasota just 7.3 miles east of I-75 on the right. 12pm to 11pm each day.
Come out and enjoy good food and great music by legendary performers and help support the fight against ALS.

Concert benefit for ‘Dangerous Dan’ Toler official website http://www.dantolerbenefit.myevent.com/
Dickey Betts & Great Southern official website http://www.dickeybetts.com/
Bonnie Bramlett official website http://www.bonniebramlett.com/index.htm
Blackhawk /The Outlaws official website http://www.blackhawklive.com/news/

Order columnist/author Ray Shasho’s new book called Check the Gs – The True Story of an Eclectic American Family and Their Wacky Family Business at amazon.com, iuniverse.com, barnesandnoble.com or borders.com. Order now for the holidays!
 
“Original, Entertaining and Hilarious-- This book has all the elements of a classic in the making. The novel is centralized around Raymond, a boy growing up around the family business in Washington, DC...but that is just the tip of the plot. The dynamic characters really make this memoir.”  - Reviewed by a local high school English Teacher.

Contact Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com

Exclusive Interview: TODD RUNDGREN talks about UTOPIA reunion with Ray Shasho

 By Ray Shasho

The melodious ingenuity of Todd Rundgren will be evident when he reunites the progressive rock multi-instrumentalist ensemble Utopia for a Capitol Theatre appearance on Saturday November 5th in Downtown Clearwater.  After 35 years most of the original members of Todd Rundgren’s Utopia will be joining together on stage once more, a truly amazing feat in itself.
The tour kicks off in Hollywood, Florida on November 2nd at Hard Rock Live Seminole Casino followed by performances in Ft. Pierce, Clearwater and Jacksonville before heading north.

Todd Rundgren was inspired by virtuoso trendsetters Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Michael Bloomfield and Harvey Mandel. The Philadelphia native directed his creativities into launching the bands Money and Woody’s Truck Stop achieving regional success.

Rundgren then organized the nationally recognized Nazz in 1967. Initially formed as a psychedelic-blues rock band it discovered an array of eclectic musical styles. Todd Rundgren’s huge hit single “Hello It’s Me” was originally recorded with the Nazz in 1968. The Nazz became successful with the psychedelic tune “Open My Eyes” while opening shows for Jim Morrison and The Doors.

After Nazz broke up Rundgren recorded several solo albums under the name Runt and Todd scored commercially with his first big solo hit “We Gotta Get You a Woman” in 1971.

The genius of Rundgren became even clearer with the release of his certified gold double album masterpiece Something/Anything? The album spawned the huge Top 40 singles “I Saw The Light” (#16 Billboard) and Nazz original composition “Hello It’s Me” (#5 Billboard).

Utopia was formed in 1973 but the band’s foundation was established in 1974. Rundgren magnified his musical inventiveness by fusing progressive, pop, psychedelic and hard rock into euphonious orchestrations. The band featured Todd Rundgren on guitars and vocals, Kevin Ellman on percussions, Moogy Klingman on keyboards, Ralph Schuckett on keyboards and John Siegler on bass and cello. After 1975 the band had numerous personnel changes. Kasim Sulton bassist/keyboardist joined the band in 1976. The 2011 Utopia lineup has added guitarist Jesse Gress (Tony Levin Band). Original Synthesist Jean-Yves “M. Frog” Labat was later replaced by Roger Powell in 1975. (These members will not be joining the 2011 tour)

Utopia’s signature anthem “Just One Victory” from the 1973 release A Wizard, A True Star is usually played at the end of every concert. Rundgren’s penned “Love Is The Answer” from Utopia’s Oops! Wrong Planet album in 1977 became a huge hit for England Dan & John Ford Coley in 1979 reaching number #10 on the Billboard Hot 100 charts.

Todd Rundgren maintained a highly successful solo career while recording and performing with Utopia. In 1978 Todd Rundgren released the sentimental “Can We Still Be Friends” becoming #29 on Billboard’s Hot 100.
Throughout the 70’s and 80’s Todd Rundgren established himself as an industrious musical genius in the recording studio producing and engineering for legendary artists including classic albums Straight Up by Badfinger, Stage Fright by The Band, The New York Dolls, We’re An American Band and Shinin’ On by Grand Funk Railroad, Bat Out Of Hell by Meatloaf and Skylarking by XTC. A full list of Todd’s credits are listed here on allmusic. Rundgren also contributed his extraordinary skills as a first rate musician and composer to a legion of legendary artists.

Utopia’s progressive rock improvisations landed the group cult status throughout its tenure. The groups lone Top 40 hit was “Set Me Free” from their most commercially successful album Adventures in Utopia in 1980. However the band held numerous AOR (album orientated rock) successes including “Caravan,” “Love In Action” and “Feet Don’t Fail Me Now” a proverbial favorite on MTV.

In 1983 Todd Rundgren wrote “Bang The Drum All Day” All the instruments on the song were performed by Rundgren. The tune is widely heard at professional sporting events around the country and used on TV commercials and movie trailers.

Utopia split up in 1986 and reunited briefly in 1992. But now in 2011 Utopia is back!

Last week I had the rare privilege of speaking with Todd Rundgren from his home in Kauai Hawaii.

Here’s my interview with legendary musical innovator/ musician/singer/ composer/ multi-instrumentalist/ record producer/ recording engineer/computer programmer/ and just a cool guy Todd Rundgren.

Mahalo Todd!

“Aloha!”

I spent my honeymoon on Waikiki Beach and I’m assuming that Kauai is nothing like Oahu?

“Yea Waikiki is the big city it’s pretty rural in the outlying islands and nice and quiet.”

When I visited Honolulu, it was a much bigger city than I had imagined.

“It gets busy down there and they have some of the world’s finest (Laughing) street women, the ladies of the night. It’s all a Waikiki phenomenon.”

You’ll be performing the first four dates of the tour in Florida including a stop at the Capitol Theatre in Clearwater on November 5th. For some reason Florida is usually last on the totem pole when it comes to concert tours but that’s not the case with a Todd Rundgren tour.

“I’ve had a degree of work in Florida for reasons that I can’t fully explain. There’s a whole gap of states that I barely ever get to Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina and places like that and for me the south is like Richmond Virginia and Atlanta and it’s kind of an outpost and we don’t always get to it because the routing doesn’t always work out but fortunately we’re kicking off this tour in Florida.”

I understand your son Rex has been trying to make a career in baseball, does he still play ball?

“Yea he still plays but is in an Independent League now. He’s actually on a Canadian team this year. It’s a league that kind of spans borders I guess they merged together a bunch of Independent leagues and they’ve got teams in Canada and other teams on the west coast a team or two in Mexico and they even go as far west as Hawaii.”

What position does he play?

“Shortstop he’s always been a middle infielder. He handles it well he’s good at it and that’s why he’s still playing.”

Did you help coach him while he was growing up?

“No I can’t say that. (Laughing) I was never much of a baseball fan so I didn’t even know what to look for it was his high school coach that discovered his talent and lead us into it.”

How many children do you have?

“I have five and they’re all pretty much grown now the youngest is nineteen.”

Are you a Grandpa now?

“Yes I am and have been for quite a while now.

Many of the original Utopia members will be reuniting for the first time in 35 years or so?

“I don’t know if we’re celebrating an actual date when the band came together it was kind of an organic thing anyway we don’t even remember what the first date was I do recall many of the band members played on a gig that we did in Central Park that was mostly around my material we had yet to record an actual Utopia record. As I recall I did have most of the members that would actually end up in the band. A lot of the guys were playing on my records and doing gigs with me so Utopia kind of came together as a process I guess rather than declaring that we were a band.”

It’s quite an accomplishment just getting everyone back together again.

“Yea it is remarkable that everyone is still playing. And I don’t want to say it’s remarkable that everyone is still alive but most of us are up in our 60’s. But the fact that everyone is still doing gigs and is ready to play this music again like it’s suppose to be played that’s probably the most remarkable thing.”

You know it’s a real shame that there is so much bitterness that still exists between members of those legendary bands. A group that comes to mind is Grand Funk Railroad all the original members are still  playing and touring yet I spoke with Mark Farner recently and the vibes that I got were they’ll never get back together again and it’s a shame because the impact would be huge. 

“Yea I wonder baggage I guess for some acts and sometimes people don’t see the musical necessity they might be doing other things and I could understand that. This version of Utopia certainly hasn’t worked together for more than thirty years and it wasn’t like I was sitting around wishing the band would reform it was a series of circumstance that made it possible. Most likely this will be the only time that we ever do this it’s not going to turn into an endless string of touring.”

Were there intense rehearsing and preparations for this tour?

“We have yet to do our rehearsing. Well we played together for over two nights in January last year it was a benefit for one of the guys in the band who is having some medical issues and particularly the audience response that’s what spurred the idea of possibly doing more and it’s taken this long to find the circumstance to do that and one of the objectives was to play at better than we did over the two nights."

"Essentially because of me having flights cancelled on consecutive days we were supposed to get like three days of rehearsal in and instead only got a couple hours of rehearsals in. So as much as everyone was sort of enjoying the performance I know I spent the whole time just trying to grab fragments out of the air and not really feeling that confidant in what I was playing. So that was kind of the number one thing for me if we were going to do this again we would get some serious rehearsal in and that starts next weekend. So we’re going to get hopefully at least three solid days of rehearsal in before we do that first gig in Florida.”

Progressive Rock Music is so convoluted I compare it to working complicated mathematics problems.

“Part of Progressive Rock is the challenge of playing it physically but the other significant aspect is remembering. (Laughing) There’s lots of little details often and for me the biggest challenge is what comes next and making sure that I’ve got my head in the right space.”

That’s got to be a huge challenge after all these years to be putting all the pieces back together again right?

"Yea, as I said fortunately the other guys in the band they don’t tour as much as I do but they do get together with some regularity in a club in New York City and play this music so they’re pretty well familiar with it if I’m not."

Is the show going to be all Utopia material or will there will some of your solo material as well?

“Well we did do other material other sort of non Utopia material when we did the gig in New York. We have essentially two albums worth which where if you add them together it’s about a two hour show. So we’re going to try and learn everything that we use to know. (Laughing) And play that as well as we can and that of course includes certain oddments like our version of The Move’s “Do Ya” and “Something’s Coming” things that aren’t necessarily Utopia originals but we enjoyed playing live.”

It’s got to be great fun playing Progressive Rock Music because there’s plenty of room for improvisation.

“Well that was kind of the issue with our shows back in the day our shows use to go on for four and half hours sometimes because we had a guitar player and three keyboard players and everybody would take a ten minute solo on every song. The thing that’s different nowadays is that in all likelihood most of the audience won’t be on acid. (All Laughing) So they will notice how much time is going by compared to the old days when nobody noticed when five hours went by.”

Like earlier Pink Floyd concerts. I witnessed the heaviest intake of drug at Floyd shows, more than any other event. 

“And Grateful Dead shows were notorious for the combination of both the consumption of the contraband and the shows that go on forever.”

“But I think part of the appeal of this is the music of people’s youth and it’s an opportunity for them to go out and relive that youth in a way.”

Veteran musicians like Tony Levin continue to push the envelope with new Progressive Rock styles and collaborations. Do you hear Progressive Rock in today’s youth? 

“I guess there’s some contemporary bands that you could say qualify as Progressive Rock like Coheed & Cambria and some that aren’t actually Progressive Rock but base themselves on Progressive Rock bands of the past. It all depends on what the kids are into. Music is driven pretty much on what a younger audience wants to hear. So if they get bored with their Lady Gaga’s and such maybe they’ll see Progressive Rock is hip.”

I’ve enjoyed the way technology has evolved and I know that you have as well. Of course it’s much easier now to record and view the music that we love so much and the sound is incredible. But there are other aspects of the music industry that should probably go back to the basics.

“It’s hard to get like a traditional sort of record deal like multimillion dollar seven album deals don’t exist anymore. It’s also an era where there’s a lot more opportunities to promote yourself that didn’t exist during the heyday of the record labels. There’s YouTube now and people build entire careers on one video phenomenon or something like that. So while it’s kind of sad that it isn’t the way we remember it it’s really kind of what the record industry decided to do and I guess the evidence now is what they decided to do was not a good thing for them I mean the music will survive even the music industry.”

“But I think the biggest difference is there are eras in which music is kind of a center of life especially for younger audiences formative and developing an image of themselves but most important have the disposable income so fashion and music and film and everything tries to appeal to them and when we were growing up music was like the most important thing and there have been occasional eras where the music might have been the most important thing for a segment of the youth population like when Punk Rock was out and everybody wanted to put glue in their hair that’s youth and rebellion.”

“I guess the bigger problem is that youth actually runs things now. Everyone’s come to realize in a relatively wealthy society in which children are kind of doted upon and they don’t get a dollar for an allowance they get a hundred dollars for allowance and when kids have that much disposable income everything is kind of designed to appeal to them. When we were growing up it was like you young hippy kids don’t know anything blah-blah-blah so that created a polarization with the older generation and made music take on a greater significance. It’s like the South Park episode where Stan’s dad insists that he is going to like the kid’s music because that keeps him young even though listening to it makes him puke. So he likes it anyway. If you like what the kids like you’re automatically young.”

You’re right it doesn’t seem like the music is important today as it was with us. To me most of the popular music played today resembles dance music and just a variation of Disco.

“Yea that’s because there’s no sort of real fad like Grunge or Gangster Rap or whatever it is. We’re kind of in like a space in between and dance music is always there. It goes and like hides in Europe. Mostly it hides until there’s a barren space for it to come back again and that’s what’s been happening recently there’s no real kind of movement in music.”

Every time I have this discussion I always blame radio’s lack of effort for promoting good music.

“Well there is satellite radio which does really well for me. I get played a lot on satellite radio probably way more than terrestrial radio. But the part of the reason why the whole musical milieu is the way it is -is because of decisions that radio and record labels made in collusion with each other that they thought it was a great way to make money but all those decisions weren’t based on musical merit they were only based on advertising models and things like that. How do we coax money out of these kid’s pockets even if the music that we’re playing is really horrible. And ultimately what they did was engineered their own demise. At the same time they were refusing to adapt to new ways of listening to and acquiring music that have become the daily habits of listeners nowadays and that’s why people don’t listen to albums anymore because its impractical to download an entire album into your phone. So people are going back to just downloading songs. But I don’t think things are going to get stuck in that rut forever.”

The entertainment value of Radio and Television has also suffered because of the excessive advertising. I know the original idea for creating Radio and Television was to sell advertising but the entertainment side of it is all but vanished. 

“Radio threw itself whole heartedly into that when they started doing things like applying market analysis for the radio listening audience. Every time a potential single was going to get released the very first thing that they would do was to send it to Arbitron to get rated and if it didn’t get a high enough number then the single wouldn’t come out. I lived through that. I lived through the excuse of while we paid them five thousand dollars that people with little dials listen to the music and tell us whether they liked it or not. So everything is a product of a so called representative audience and nothing unusual ever finds its way onto the airwaves.”

I always questioned the validity of the Arbitron and Nielson rating system anyway. We were selected to be a Nielson family once and it was kind of an antiquated way to truly rate the programming.

“And they don’t really care if you like the shows or not they just want to know if you’re watching. So they figure if people are watching then we keep doing this and if people aren’t watching then we change what we’re doing. It’s been proven time and time again that it doesn’t necessarily always recognize things that are going to appeal if not to the entire audience to a very intensely devoted audience. It’s like what happened to Family Guy they got dropped from Fox and built an entire new audience from the ground up on The Cartoon Network. And nobody realized that they could have the potential of this incredibly devoted fan following. That’s more important than numbers of people it’s really important to have really- really devoted people because those are the ones who can be counted on to watch the show every time it comes on and be subject to all the advertising.”

I talked with Tommy James (Shondells) recently and he believes that we’ll see some kind of music subscription on your television one day soon where you can download all types of music from your TV remote.

“I think he’s substantially right in one regard and that is that in the long run people will prefer to have a subscription kind of model to music as opposed to this song at a time model which is kind of what killed the music business in the first place. How did the music business wind up so on the ropes and yet Television keeps expanding and adding more programming and stuff like that. Of course TV is based on a subscription model you pay a monthly fee and you watch as much or as little as you want and what that does is guarantee income to all the producers of Television just by virtue of the fact that somebody is paying a monthly cable bill and music needs the same kind of thing. What a subscription based model does is exposes more unusual things to a broader audience because people aren’t thinking this is going to cost me money to listen to they can listen to anything they want all they have to do is pay their ten dollars a month. I have a Rhapsody subscription and it’s the only place that I go to get music and I never have to think do I want to listen to this or download this or download that I can download all of it. I can just forget it and it will still be there if I want to go find it again later.”

“But the whole idea of being able to instantaneously purchase stuff is not simple but you can easily sort of do that they’ve got APS like SoundDogs where you hear something in a restaurant and you say hmm I like that I wonder what it is and you just hold up your cell phone and it identifies the music that’s playing. And then usually the next step is okay now that you know what it is there’s a button there that’ll take you to Amazon or the Apple store or something like that then to complete that transaction. So that’s becoming a more common place thing. The underlying model though is the one that I’ve always been concerned with which is whether it’s a subscription based thing or a commoditized thing and I’ve always felt that the commoditized model was the ultimate downfall of the music business.”

Napster comes to mind when you speak about the demise of the music business.

“Napster was the first service to sort of demonstrate that delivery was possible and that there was audience demand. And the music business did what it always done and they’re incredibly stupid in this regard. What they’ve always done is try to impede progress rather than try to understand the audience dynamic. How is this going to change the audience is the audience going to adapt to this. There’s always some unruly thing that they’ve been trying to control. And they just completely misread it or decided no we’re going to not allow the system to change and therefore no one will have any of these choices and that’s when somebody like Napster steps in and says hey anybody with a computer you can now download music regardless of what your freakin’ record company say. And suddenly the audience once they realize they can do this takes to it so avidly that the record companies are caught so completely flatfooted they have no idea how to exploit it because their only strategy was to try to prevent it from ever happening. And there it is it’s happened already. You can’t put it back in the bottle. And unfortunately instead of adapting to it and trying to figure out how to use it by the time they got hip to what was going on their lunch was already eaten and they were out of business.”

Is there any way to get that excitement back in music again the way it was back in the 60’s and 70’s, is it even possible?

“Like I said I think a lot has changed so nothing is going to be exactly like we remember it. It’s going to be potentially some variation like I said about The Beatles when they came out it was more than simply a new musical phenomenon they had their hair long and suddenly everybody wanted to grow their hair and this came up against a whole cultural means about what you were allowed to look like in public. People don’t recall but everybody pretty much was striving to be identical up until The Beatles appeared and then everybody was striving to grow their hair. But there’s something that goes completely counter to the current means and that is driven by a musical subculture. It isn’t necessarily musicians but a subculture that makes music.”

“The Viet Nam war and essentially what characterized youth attitudes and things like that were old people sending young people off to die and that’s enough to get your dander up.”

I’ve always admired Producers like you who are brought in to work on an album and then it becomes a classic. Very few people can do that and you seem to have a knack for it. 

“Well I can’t always do it. It’s just that sometimes you have all the necessary pieces. Sometimes you do have the necessary pieces but it just doesn’t work out. I’ve had some great albums come out by various artists and they don’t for some reason connect with either with the audience or the people who have to expose it to the audience that’s always disappointing but it is a phenomenon. There are lots of superior products that fail in the marketplace for whatever reason like the DeLorean.”

Who were some of the Producers that you admired?

“Well of course no one knew who a Producer was until George Martin so you would have to like start there. Nobody thought about what goes into making a great record even Producers historically especially in the U.S. had a different kind of function they were mostly in the studio to see that the recordings did not go over long and over budget. And I know that the very first Producer that I worked with I had high expectations of what his role was and finally discovered once we got into the studio that he was this old school Bean Counter and really contributed nothing. So I think in the long run becoming a record Producer and that whole definition changed as time went on and plus what the role of a Producer is -is completely different depending on the context. I know Producers who know very little about music per se but know how to get it out of people. They know how to get people to perform in the studio and that’s as important as anything.”

“A lot of Producers who’s works I’ve appreciated and maybe even gone to some lengths to incorporate Steve Lillywhite was a great Producer he had a characteristic sound at the time that he was at his height of Producer nobody else was able to recreate. And plus more importantly I think an ear for talent I guess knowing what a good song is knowing what it takes to make a good song I’ve always felt the material was the most important aspect that the Producers ear has to first of all focus on the material and then second of all worry about how it sounds.”

I’ve watched a lot of Beatles documentaries and had the rare privilege of attending a live lecture by Sir George Martin and it is truly amazing when he demonstrates the before and after on a Beatles album in the studio. He was definitely the fifth Beatle.

“Also the records that he was not involved always seemed to have less of certain things that you were expecting like The White Album as opposed to Abbey Road. The White Album what it seemed like was a disorganized jumble of ideas and when you learned later how they actually did the record you realize it was a disorganized jumble of ideas. I mean they would come in one at a time maybe two at a time and play something on one of the tracks probably half the tracks on the record involved one Beatle only doing everything himself and maybe asking just for a little bit of help on something or sing some background vocals on my song so it still sounds like The Beatles.”

“Then you take a record like Abbey Road which everyone thinks is maybe the height of The Beatles skills in the studio and that was when they decided to get back together again with George Martin.”

Todd you’re somewhat of an enigma because you compose and can play all the instruments on your recording and then produce it.

“I grew up in an era where you could. The costs for recording equipment was going continuously down and so I was able to relatively early part of my career build a studio of my own and to do sort of like experimental things that weren’t possible or encouraged at other studios and learned a lot that way because it was such a hands on experience.”

How did you first learn how to work in the studio was it basically just diving in and then trial and error?

“Pretty much you’ve got to put your hands on the console. I recall when we were first doing demos and things like that trying to get signed as the Nazz we’d be in a lot of union studios where nobody was even allowed to touch anything on the console or they would call union breaks every two and a half hours. You’d just starting to get hot and then they’d say we’ve got to call a session here that sort of thing. So the idea of having free reign in the studio total Carte Blanche that was relatively new I guess and I took some of the first money that I ever made and reinvested and built a studio for myself and it made a big difference.”

Didn’t you do a cover album recently devoted to Robert Johnson tunes?

“Essentially I did an album called Arena when we found a distributor for it they said okay we’ll put this record out but we want you to record an album of Robert Johnson songs because we’re administering the publishing and that’s a way for us to make some money and also we could possibly get master licenses so I said okay I’ll do that and then for like two years I promoted the record on the road and they kept pushing the release date back. So finally I gave up promoting on the road then they released the record last spring and since then I’ve been doing other things. Yea I did my stint as a blues man for awhile. So now I’m back to less bluesy concerns. I actually had another album come out this year and I’m not promoting that one either.” (Laughing)

Is that the [re]Production album?

“Yea it’s mostly dance versions. I wanted to make a contemporary sounding record so it’s kind of like a study in production and that also was a record that was done under a more or less unusual mandate it was a recording camp so the record also includes performances by campers who showed up and auditioned on various parts of the record. The problem is that it is a dance record and I have no idea how to promote it. (Laughing) It’s just out there and we’ll see if anything happens if it does happen I’ll figure out a way to turn it into a show.”

The album is essentially covering the music of the bands you produced in the studio, artist like Grand Funk Railroad, Meatloaf and you do a remake of XTC’s “Dear God,” I was on a huge Dukes of Stratosphear kick back when they were releasing albums and most people never realized that they were actually XTC.   

“They had no touring life. Andy had this debilitating stage fright so the band members never went out on the road they only made records. When they put out an XTC record and it’s not time for another one then they just changed the name of the band.”

One last comment, I really enjoyed the segment you did on Live from Daryl’s House with Daryl Hall.

“And that’s going to be on the air now on the actual Television. I’ve done the show twice and the latest one was at my house. The first one was from Daryl’s house in Connecticut and more recently from my house here in Kauai.”

It was cool to watch you singin’ and chillin’ at your home in Kauai.

“The reality of it is I can’t get any work out here so I’ve got to hit the road.” (Laughing)

Todd thank you so much for chatting with me today it was a great pleasure.  I’ll see you in Clearwater Florida on November 5th.

“Thanks Ray I’ll see you when we get there.”

Special Thanks goes out to Lynn Robnett of Panacea Entertainment, Mary Lou Arnold and Billy James.

Todd Rundgren’s Utopia will be performing at the historic Capitol Theatre on Cleveland Street in Downtown Clearwater on Saturday November 5th. I have been advised that Todd Rundgren's performance at the Capitol Theatre is SOLD OUT!
More Utopia Florida dates
November 2nd Hollywood, Fl -Seminole Casino- Hard Rock Live
November 3rd Ft. Pierce, Fl -Sunrise Theater
November 6th Jacksonville, Fl -Florida Theater

Order Todd Rundgren’s latest album [Re] Production at amazon.com

Todd Rundgren official website- http://www.tr-i.com/
RundgrenRadio.com- http://rundgrenradio.com/news.html

Order columnist/author Ray Shasho’s great new book Check the Gs -The True Story of an Eclectic American Family and Their Wacky Family Business at amazon.com, iuniverse.com, barnesandnoble.com, or borders.com Great holiday gift!

“I found Check the Gs to be pure entertainment, fantastic fun and a catalyst to igniting so many memories of my own life, as I too am within a few years of Ray.  So to all, I say if you have a bit of grey hair (or no hair), buy this book!  It’s a great gift for your “over-the-hill” friends, or for their kids, if they are the history buffs of younger generations trying to figure out why we are the way we are.”~~Pacific Book Review

Contact Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com

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Todd Rundgren and Utopia at the Capitol Theatre Clearwater 11/5/2011