Kim Wilson interview: 'We played straight blues and we were militant about it'

By Ray Shasho





This Friday, October 28th, The Fabulous Thunderbirds will be performing a free concert on Cleveland Street just outside the doors of the Capitol Theatre in Clearwater highlighting the Blast Friday festival. The event is held every fourth Friday of the month. The street fair kicks off at 5:30 pm with entertainment ending at 10:00 pm. Blast Friday is a production of Ruth Eckerd Hall.

Don’t miss this rare opportunity to witness one of the greatest blues harp (harmonica) players in the world. Legendary bluesman Muddy Waters said Kim Wilson was “The greatest harmonica player to come along since Little Walter.” Wilson says, “Muddy Waters was my biggest mentor. He really made my reputation for me, and that was a fantastic time of my life, being associated with that man.”

The Fabulous Thunderbirds began as a straight blues band over thirty years ago in Austin Texas. The original lineup spotlighted Kim Wilson’s blue-eyed soul vocals and proficient harp playing accompanied by the great Jimmie Vaughan (Stevie Ray Vaughan’s brother) on guitar.

Kim Wilson’s soulful vocal styles were prominent on the Fabulous Thunderbirds most commercially successful release Tuff Enuff in 1986. Produced by Welsh rocker Dave Edmonds the album conceived Wilson’s penned “Tuff Enuff” (#10 hit on Billboard’s Hot100) and Sam and Dave’s “Wrap It Up.” The T-Birds undeniably brought the blues back to contemporary radio.

“Tuff Enuff” was featured in the film Tough Guys starring Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas. It was also spotlighted on the Ron Howard comedy film Gung Ho starring Michael Keaton and numerous occasions on the TV sitcom Married with Children.

Co-Founder and guitarist Jimmie Vaughan exited the band in 1989. Vaughan’s brother guitar virtuoso Stevie Ray was killed in a helicopter crash in 1990.
Throughout the 80’s and 90’s the T-Birds toured extensively supporting bands like The Rolling Stones and Eric Clapton.

The soulful crooning of Kim Wilson and the amazing players of The Fabulous Thunderbirds continue to astound its audiences worldwide. The T-Birds frequent blues festivals and perform over 300 dates consistently year round. Wilson also tours with Kim Wilson’s Blues All-Stars.
The T-Birds played the Sarasota Blues Fest in 1997 with the Bobby “Blue” Bland and the Tampa Bay Blues Fest in 2009.

I recently chatted with Kim Wilson while he made breakfast at his home in Southern California.

Good morning Kim thanks for being on the call today.

“It’s my pleasure Ray.”

The T-Birds are currently on a mini-tour and you’ve recently played a bunch of casino dates. It seems a lot of artists these days enjoy playing those venues. What’s your take on playing casinos?   

“Well they pay good and it’s really just a great situation. I mean the room is usually really nice and all you have to do is walk down from your room to play. And usually it’s a real nice dressing room you know it’s a great situation and people are very comfortable there. They can go out and gamble or do whatever they want. They can get in the day of the show and play some golf or whatever and I love doing them. Those are great gigs it’s basically a form of playing clubs on steroids. The facilities are always great and of course there’s always free food and you get a sort of suite and perks on the golf course.”

The T-Birds are going to be touring Australia in April of 2012.

“I went down to Argentina a few months ago and that was awesome. The harmonica down there is kind of a classical instrument. I mean they have actual Masters that teach the young people how to play. People that are taking lessons actually study the harmonica. It was very interesting they play chromatic down there. I heard about it from my friend Rick Estrin who plays for the Nightcats.”

“But Australia is going to be really nice I haven’t been there for awhile. The Byron Bay Blues Fest is a great festival in a great area it’s just beautiful. You know one nice thing you get to go all over the world and see some great places it’s a pretty good life in that way.”

You’ve got a separate band of musicians that your touring with called Kim Wilson’s Blues All-Stars. How does that band contribute to your musical repertoire?

“It’s real traditional but it rocks out too. It’s a really interesting thing. I would call it less of a hybrid and then the T-Birds. It’s really more straight ahead blues. Although when the T-Birds play blues it’s straight ahead and then can really do it. The Thunderbirds can do a lot of things a lot of different kinds of music they’re very good musicians. You know younger guys and most of the guys in the All-Stars are mostly older guys but don’t tell anybody. (All Laughing) They all had that Cadillac Records movie a few years ago and we all did really well on that and a couple of them got Grammy’s out of it and we all got nominated and that was great. It’s just a very-very good band.”

You’re a pretty athletic guy aren’t you?

 “I’m injured man I hurt myself.”

What did you do?

“I injured myself swinging a golf club believe it or not. I play basketball with these young guys you know and I don’t get injured. I go out swinging a golf club and I get injured.

So you play basketball with the younger guys, man that can be brutal.

“I can run with them and that’s hard to do at my age. They have no idea how old I am. They think I’m way younger than what I am.

Did you play a lot of basketball when you were a kid?

“I played football when I was a kid. Yea I played football out here in Southern California. Captain of my high school team and played all three years. I played every play of every game. Yea I played both ways I played offense and defense and I was a punt returner kick returner. The only team I didn’t play on was the field goal and kickoff team. I had scholarships to play ball but you know the writing was on the wall for me and I just started playing music. I mean if I was the size that I am now back in high school I would have been on the line. (All laughing) But I had a lot of fun and it taught me a lot of things. I was an athlete my whole life and I was also a musician and an artist and started playing music when I was about nine years old in Detroit. We had mandatory music a couple times a week in Michigan at that time and a guy would come in and tell you to play your little Tonette and play a little “Sweet Potato.” Can you imagine thirty kids playing that all at once? I can’t even imagine right now.”

“One day the music teacher comes in and he brings in a couple of horns and gets me and this other kid out of the class and hands me a baritone horn and says play it. So I played it. I played it the first time I touched it. I ended up on the trombone and I was successful for a kid. When we moved to California I played for awhile and then I stopped because I wanted to play sports you know. I was a kid!”

“Then I’m in high school and out here in California in the early 60’s and it was incredible what was going on out here. It was nuts! There was nothing like it anywhere people were coming through constantly all the blues guys so many of them and so I just became a pest. I picked up the harmonica and that was another thing that I had an affinity for and I could already sing so basically without practicing very much or at all I’m in a band. I’m the singer in the band and the harmonica player.”

So did you play blues in your first band?

“Yea we played straight blues. We didn’t have a rock and roll background. We played straight blues and we were militant about it. It was 1968. I played with the three Silva brothers. Rob on drums Marcial on bass and George on the alto saxophone. I had this kid named George Reilly on guitar he was sixteen years old and I heard he’s not alive anymore but he was an incredible talent. If he’s alive and playing he’s got to be unbelievable but I don’t think he is according to what I’ve heard. Back then he was a wino when he was sixteen. He had a serious wine abuse problem. Smack was the drug of choice and a lot of people were on it. But there was just so much stuff like that going on it was just incredible.”

What were some of the bands you emulated growing up in Southern California?

“Musselwhite use to come into town all the time he must have been just a kid back then. He was just a kid back then for sure. We’d go down to see Paul Butterfield also and then George “Harmonica” Smith started coming around and all these other people. Within a year after I started playing I was playing with Eddie Taylor, I was playing with Furry Lewis, Johnny Shines, I mean I was playing with all these guys just a year after I started. And then after that I got to know Albert Collins and Pee Wee Crayton. I met John Lee Hooker back then people like Luther Tucker there was a guy named Hi Tide Harris and of course George

“Harmonica” Smith and then there were people like Phillip Walker who just passed away recently.”
“There was this guy named Harmonica Frank you remember him? He was a white guy with a crew-cut that played the harmonica in his mouth and sang with the harmonica in his mouth. He had big race record hits and they thought he was black back in the 50’s. Look him up Harmonica Frank Floyd. His race records were blues and “Howlin Tomcat” was one of them and the way he sounded with the harmonica in his mouth he sounded like an old dude from the plantation and he probably was from the plantation actually. Harmonica Frank I don’t know what he did but he was probably a migrant worker. I think he could have been. I knew about this guy because my buddy was his pen pal and he would communicate with this guy like back in the 60’s and he communicated with this guy and his wife would write the letter for him because he couldn’t read or write. But he would sign his name and I’ll never forget it because Frank Floyd the n was backwards. But this guy was incredible he would get up there and do animal calls he was like a vaudevillian guy. In your career when you meet people like that it’s pretty Far Out!”

“So you meet all these people in your career and then you come along and later on in life people start recognizing you and start getting sessions with really cool people like Clapton like Kid Rock and I did Raphael Saadiq that just came out off Austin City Limits and I’m in a couple of those songs. And I’ve got Mark Knopfler coming up at the end of November I had to fly over to England to do it. And of course I’ve been on a couple two or three records with Bonnie Raitt and people like Paul Simon just a lot of different stuff.”

I’m originally from the Washington DC area. Bonnie Raitt was already legendary in DC before she made it big nationally so I’m naturally going to be partial to collaborations with Bonnie. I’d love to see the both of you take it on the road together. 

“I’d love to do it. Maybe once she gets her record out I can do it. It would be great to do that because she’s really a dear friend of mine and I don’t see her very often. And she’s so talented and personable. She’s able to get so connected with people and that’s awesome so many entertainers don’t have that.”

The Fabulous Thunderbirds went through a commercially successful period in the 80’s and cranked out the hits “Tuff Enuff,”“Wrap it Up” and “Look at That.” What made that period so successful for the band?

“Well really when you think about it… it was the times for sure. But people were just ready for it. And there were a lot of key things that happened.  Dave Edmonds producing for one and then the song Tuff Enuff being in a few movies it had a long shelf life. The song was still going a year later after it started going. Just a lot of work putting your face in front of a lot of people which is what we do now. Back then that was like the tail end of the record business and I think the first record or two that we had with them with Columbia Epic Sony became Sony they had a real record savvy staff a bunch of veterans real record people. It was very interesting and no matter what you think of the business you really have to respect them because they really were on top of it. They pushed and knew a lot of people and had personal relationships all over the country and they were salespeople is what they were. They say business is business no business is personal. You could go out and have dinner and a few drinks with everybody it was a pretty cool deal to watch. Then that was done and those people left the business and the record industry painted themselves in a corner musically to where no wonder they’re not in business that’s too bad. I think the Independent label now is the way to go. A friendly relationship and actually hang out a little bit with and that’s how you do it.”

The artists aren’t being promoted at all and I think we need to go back to radio basics.

“They need to be opening up the airwaves to everyone and get deejays back get the personality’s back in radio. You listened in for the personality as much as you did for the music.”
“I just got a feeling that this country is going to go back to the basics because we have no choice. This whole country has been pumped up on nothing but a bunch of air and now it’s all deflated and we’re back down to reality. No sense on being greedy you’ve got nothing to be greedy with. And don’t depend on the politicians to do anything it’s really up to you. You’re in control. I’ve got a song coming out called “Do you know who I am?” and it’s all about that.”

When will it be released?

“Something should be coming out in the beginning of next year sometime. I haven’t signed a deal yet but I am signing with a new label and it’s an Independent label and I like the people over there. You know we’ve been in the studio for a couple of years now in and out and we have a lot of different tracks that we can go with.”

You know when “Tuff Enuff” first hit the airwaves I really thought it was Tom Jones.

“Hey I tell you what that’s high praise. Tom Jones is a great singer.”

That song would have been a great cover song for him.

“You know what you’re right and he could do the s**t out of that song.”

 Who are some artists you would collaborate with today?

“The Black Keys… I would love to get involved with those guys and do something with them that would be a fun thing.”

Mick Jagger didn’t call you to work on his new SuperHeavy band?

“He plays harmonica in that anyway… probably.”  But The Stones were my favorite band when I was a kid.”

Is Mick a good harp player?

“He’s got his style and I would say he’s recognizable. Robert Plant also and he’s been very generous with me and I’ve heard people say he’s talking about me and stuff. He’s a really nice guy and just a really- really cool guy. Robert Plant is one of those guys he knows how to make himself and make his music timeless. Him and Clapton too you’ve got to hand it to Clapton he knows how to legitimize what he’s doing in modern times and pushing the envelope as far as musical styles and stuff in that same way. But it’s all based on the blues though and that’s a cool thing.”

Final thoughts Kim?

“Go see Raphael Saadiq with myself on Austin City Limits on PBS. Raphael Saadiq and Black Joe Louis is the show. We’ll have the latest Fabulous Thunderbirds at the show on Friday and then look for something around springtime maybe look for us to be breaking out.”

Additional collaborations with Bonnie Raitt and Robert Plant maybe?

“Have gun will travel.”

Kim, I’ll see you on Cleveland Street in Clearwater for Blast Friday on October 28th.

“Thanks Ray see you there brother.”

FREE concert this Friday October 28th Starring Kim Wilson and The Fabulous Thunderbirds!
It’s Blast Friday on Cleveland Street outside the doors of the Capitol Theatre.   
The Street Fair begins at 5:30 pm.

COMING NEXT Ray’s interview with Todd Rundgren and the Utopia reunion.

Special thanks to Anne Leighton Media for this interview.
The Fabulous Thunderbirds official website http://www.fabulousthunderbirds.com/
Ruth Eckerd Hall official website http://www.rutheckerdhall.com/
Anne Leighton Media http://www.anneleighton.com/

Don’t forget to order columnist and author Ray Shasho’s great new book Check the Gs –The True Story of an Eclectic American Family and Their Wacky Family Business available now at amazon.com, iuniverse.com, barnesandnoble.com and borders.com.

 
“Normalcy is a myth and anyone who tells you differently isn't very normal. "Check the Gs" is a memoir from Ray Shasho who tells of his own offbeat upbringing working in the family business art gallery, from a young age. Of Cuban and Syrian descent, he tells a very American story of coming from everything, seeing everything, walking the line of the law and much more. A fun and fast paced memoir, "Check the Gs" is a worthwhile addition to many a memoir collection.” ~~ MIDWEST BOOK REVIEW

Contact Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com

Review: MONTROSE Masterful and Powerful at Largo Cultural Center

By Ray Shasho





Thursday night’s Montrose concert was superlative. The Largo Cultural Center arranged the seating cabaret style and once inside the venue allowed to sit anywhere you pleased. The ambience was intimate without a substandard seat in the house. A bar was conveniently placed at the back of the hall and you could meander up at any time during the show. The Largo Cultural Center staff was benevolent. Snapping photos during the show was never an issue.
When Ronnie transposed into his first guitar solo an exhilarated audience scrambled their chairs up against the stage to catch an impassioned glimpse of the legendary guitar virtuoso. Montrose genuinely had fun with the audience while playing their setlist to its perfection.

The show began at 7:30 with the amazing Michael Lee Firkins. The Nebraskan guitar slinger animated the audience by using his impressive hybrid picking techniques. Firkins also plays slide while using his whammy bar. His slide rendition of Black Sabbath’s classic “War Pigs” frenzied the Cultural Center gathering. The guitar wizardry of Michael Lee Firkins was a momentous start to a perfect evening.

At 8:30 right before Showtime I greeted Ronnie and Leighsa Montrose backstage. Leighsa is an incredible lady. She handles the day to day management duties for the band and also owns a floral and event design business in San Francisco.
There were still remnants of Michael Lee Firkins fog machine drifting through the air and Montrose lead singer Keith St John became a bit concerned that it would affect his singing voice. Amazingly moments later it all vanished. Backstage technician’s tweaked last minute preparations while shouts of “Ronnie! Ronnie!” echoed throughout the packed hall.
Then a pumped and elated Ronnie Montrose nonchalantly struts on stage to cheers of accolade and emotion from the Montrose faithful. It was like watching a boxer entering the ring for a championship bout. And witnessing the anticipation from behind the scenes was an incredible milestone.

Once onstage and in full crowd view it was time to “Tear it up!” Montrose immediately erupted into “Rock the Nation” the first track from his self titled debut album of 1973.

The evening symbolized back to hard core rock and roll basics and the audience ate it up.

Ronnie showcased his elaborate guitar wizardry next on the tune “I Got the Fire” from his second album Paper Money.  At one point during the show someone yelled out “You look good Ronnie!” perhaps referring to his absence from the music scene for several years due to a bout with Cancer. Ronnie immediately replied “I feel even better!” The Largo audience responded with cheers.

The hard-driven pace slowed a bit with “Make it Last” another tune from the Montrose debut album of 1973. A period which witnessed Ronnie Montrose exit a commercially successful Edgar Winter Group with huge hits like “Frankenstein” and “Free Ride” still looming on the airwaves.

“Twenty Flight Rock” originally performed by 50’s rock and roll pioneer Eddie Cochran was next on the playlist followed by “Space Age Sacrifice” and it was apparent that Keith St John's voice was not disturbed by remnants of  Michael Lee Firkins drifting fog. Keith St John is an impeccable rock and roll singer. His range and energy are incredible. St John constantly prances around the stage and incites his audience. And let’s face it, if you’re carrying on a tradition that began with legendary voice Sammy Hagar than you’d better be a great singer. And Keith St John is an exceptional vocalist.

The entire band was tight and flawless. Dan McNay’s awesome reverberation on bass and Steve Brown’s rigor thunder on drums rounded out a mind-blowing rock and roll machine.

In 1978 Ronnie Montrose formed the band Gamma with Davey Pattison (current lead singer with Robin Trower) at the helm. Ronnie featured his electrified mastery on the Gamma classic “Voyager.” A surreal tune with incredible guitar licks that borders on fusion and progressive rock. There were earlier cries of “Gamma!” from the audience so after the tune was played to its perfection everyone arose to their feet.

The following four tunes played were all from the illustrious Montrose debut album. So it was back to the hard rockin’ basics with “I Don’t Want It” followed by the biggest crowd pleaser of the evening, the hard, sweet and sticky signature composition “Rock Candy” bringing the crowd to its feet once again.
The evening concluded with St John's proficient wailing and Ronnie’s electrified brilliance on Space Station #5 and Sammy Hagar penned Montrose classic “Bad Motor Scooter.” Michael Lee Firkins joined Ronnie on stage for the explosive conclusion to a flawless event.

The band took its final bow and then off to a meet and greet with their fans in the lobby.

Photographer Mark Weaver has collaborated with me on numerous gigs. Mark arrived earlier on Thursday for the bands Soundcheck. When he climbed out of his car at the Largo Cultural Center parking lot he ran into an old friend Raven Mitchell who is a technician and just so happened to be working the Montrose show. Once inside Weaver introduced himself to Ronnie and Leighsa Montrose and then observed Mitchell changing the strings on Ronnie’s guitar. Ronnie Montrose had forgotten to bring his slide from the hotel room. He asked to try several of Michael Lee Firkins slides but none had the right feel.

Weaver who is also a guitarist told Ronnie that he had several brass slides at home and offered to bring them to the Soundcheck. When he returned back to the venue Ronnie Montrose decided to use one of Mark’s slides because it was polished and created for a better tone. Long story short, Mark Weaver’s slide was featured on the Montrose classic “Bad Motor Scooter” on Thursday night. Pretty cool stuff!

MONTROSE is a great band that provided plenty of sheer rock energy on stage in Largo on Thursday night. Welcome back Ronnie we missed you!

Ronnie Montrose Official Website http://www.ronniemontrose.com/
Largo Cultural Center Official Website http://www.largo.com/department/?fDD=15-0
Leighsa Montrose Official Website http://www.branchoutflowers.com/
Michael Lee Firkins Official Website http://www.michaelleefirkins.com/

Special thanks to Ronnie and Leighsa Montrose
Rob Mondora and the entire staff of the Largo Cultural Center
Don’t miss The Pat Travers Band on New Years Eve at the Largo Cultural Center.

And don’t forget to order author and columnist Ray Shasho’s great new book Check the Gs –The True Story of an Eclectic American Family and Their Wacky Family Business.  If you love rock and roll you’ll love the story. Order today at amazon.com, iuniverse.com, barnesandnoble.com or borders.com.

“Ray Shasho has quite a memory, especially when it comes to what songs played on the radio during important times throughout his youth. Combining his nostalgic recant of Billboard’s Top 100, like some infomercial for a Time-Life Oldies CD collector’s set, along with his detailed whimsical recollections while growing up, and you have the “soundtrack” for a truly enjoyable story called  “Check the Gs”~~Pacific Book Review

Contact Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com

Review: Frampton Comes Alive!35 Interview:Bassist Stanley Sheldon

By Ray Shasho



REVIEW: Prodigious Classic Rock artist Peter Frampton and his top-notch band performed the entire Frampton Comes Alive! masterpiece on Saturday night at Ruth Eckerd Hall in Clearwater. The event celebrated an amazing 35th anniversary of his multi-platinum double album that still remains as one of the best-selling live albums of all-time.

The three hour performance was interrupted only once by a twenty minute intermission. And if you ventured out of the Hall during the show you had to wait until after the song was over to return to your seat. The rule was set in place because the show was recorded and a live CD of the concert was made available to purchase after the show had ended.

I was a junior in high school when Frampton Comes Alive! was first released and just about every house party during that time melded the album into its ambience. Saturday night’s Ruth Eckerd Frampton Comes Alive alumni were at yet another house party to relive the good times when the album was first spun.

The first set of the evening included most of Frampton’s big hits and the packed Ruth Eckerd house was unyielding. Throughout the show there were outcries of enthusiasm perhaps to eclipse the audiences from the original concert recordings of 1975. Even during Frampton’s solo acoustic segments as in “All I Want To Be (Is By Your Side)” there were bursts of exuberance initiated from every direction of the Hall.
Peter Frampton is 61 now and although he makes fun of losing his symbolic rock star head of locks, Saturday’s show proves that his performances stand the test of time. I’ve witnessed Peter Frampton concerts since 1974 and he’s never disappointed devout fans or concert goers who are there simply as advocates for rock and roll.

The most memorable moments of the first set were an electrified shootout between Sheriff Peter Frampton and Guitar Slinger Adam Lester during “I’ll Give You Money” that blew its audience away.

Frampton’s trademark anthem “Do You Feel Like We Do” followed and generated an ovation of epic proportions. In all the year’s I’ve watched Frampton’s concerts it always appeared like he wore a painted smile on his face. I never witnessed Frampton not smiling. But during a thunderous ovation from an appreciative and galvanized Ruth Eckerd audience, that painted smile metamorphosed into sheer elation.

The eclectic second set enhanced the range of talents in the band. Many of the songs featured muti-instrumentalist Bob Arthur who captured his own fans on Saturday night. Then of course Adam Lester’s mastery on guitar, remarkable bass licks generated by veteran rocker Stanley Sheldon, and the impressive drumming of Dan Wojciechowski completed Frampton’s proficient line-up.

The second set was tight and performed brilliantly with every song accompanied by an awesome screen and light show. An unexpected surprise was a Humble Pie classic called “Four Day Creep.” The tune performed with footage of Frampton’s old bandmates projected on a screen behind him. Vocal efforts although noble could never mirror Humble Pie’s legendary frontman Steve Marriott.

The evening wound down with Frampton’s rendition of Soundgarden’s “Black Whole Sun” followed by a huge ovation and encore of friend George Harrison’s tune “While My Guitar Gently Weeps.”

Undoubtedly Peter Frampton will be back, especially after receiving a response like the one he received at Ruth Eckerd Hall on Saturday night.

“The Clearwater crowd was the best I’ve seen on this tour,” says bassist Stanley Sheldon. I chatted with Stanley after the show and interviewed him prior to the Ruth Eckerd engagement.

INTERVIEW:
Prior to the concert at Ruth Eckerd Hall I had the pleasure of chatting with Stanley Sheldon the original bassist of Frampton Comes Alive! since its fruition in1976. Sheldon also played on the album’s “I’m In You,”  “Where I Should Be” and contributed his extraordinary talents as co-writer and bassist on the Grammy award winning instrumental album Fingerprints.

Sheldon is an early advocate for the fretless bass.

The Kansas native spent most of the 90’s devoted to Latin American Studies at the University of Kansas and traveled extensively throughout Latin America with studies focused on slave society of the nineteenth century and how its influence on past music continues to affect the transformation and hybridization of world music today. Sheldon often played Salsa and Son music with various players to huge dance crowds during his journeys.

Sheldon shared an amazing relationship with close friend and guitar virtuoso Tommy Bolin. Bolin played guitar on Billy Cobham’s renowned Spectrum album before joining legendary Classic Rock Bands -The James Gang and Deep Purple. Tommy Bolin died of a drug overdose in Miami, Florida in 1976.
Before his untimely death Sheldon played on Tommy Bolin’s critically acclaimed debut album Teaser. Sheldon also appears on varied Bolin archival appearances.

Stanley Sheldon has also recorded with Lou Gramm (Foreigner’s original vocalist) and has toured as bassist with Warren Zevon and the Delbert McClinton band.

Here’s my Chat with Bassist/Songwriter/Musician/Scholar /Stanley Sheldon.

Stanley, thank you very much for joining me this afternoon. My mother was born and raised in Cuba so naturally I’m fascinated about your studies of Latin American culture.

“That’s very interesting because it was the Cuban song the music from Cuba that really enticed me because that’s what later on became Salsa. I was playing at the University of Kansas with some Venezuelans who I’d met there while I worked on my undergrad degree that same decade and I was doing environmental studies for that degree and when it was time to select a Masters program I had been playing Salsa with these Latinos and I just fell in love with the Cuban rhythms especially Cuba and Puerto Rico. So it was that great love of the rhythms that brought me to Latin American studies.”

I grew up in an eclectic household and half of my parents listened to Celia Cruz.

“Celia is one of my idols too and also like Hector Lavoeand all of the great ones Willie Colon and Reuben Blades all the Salsa stuff the Venezuelans that I was playing with they really gave me a crash course on Salsa 101 man I learned from experts of who to listen to it was great.”

Do you have Latino blood?

“You know I do not but my Uncle my dad’s brother went down to Cuba right before the revolution because he had a heart condition and my dad traveled there and they were only in their early 20’s my dad was even younger and my uncle Frank married a Cuban and brought her home right after the revolution so I’ve always felt kind of close to Cuba.”

Did you learn the language?

“My Spanish is getting pretty good I was teaching classes to Spanish speakers for the EPA and now I have my lady interest who is a Mexican National so I’ve been there four times this year to Mexico. I’m in love with a Mexican. So my language skills are pretty good. And she’s very beautiful.”

You know it’s funny we find out much later in her career that Linda Ronstadt had Mexican roots.

“Man she really sang that Mariachi stuff so beautifully. Well you know I kind of knew about her roots because I had done some tours with her when I was in a band called Ronin and playing with Warren Zevon you know she was connected with. So I kind of knew about her Hispanic heritage but not very many other people did.”

After the show on Saturday in Clearwater, a live CD set recording of the show will be available to purchase?

“That is correct it’s a three CD set and it takes three CD’s to fit the entire three and half hour show. What happens is during the show as they’re recording it the first CD get’s finished and they start packaging it and it looks just like the CD you buy at the store wrapped and everything. But the third CD the fans will   line up and wait ten minutes only after the show and they can purchase the whole three CD set.”

That’s really cool; it’s like being part of rock and roll history.

“Yea and a lot of fans are really appreciative you know because it’s another Frampton Comes Alive! And the quality of the recordings is getting better and better throughout the tour and the most recent ones just sound spectacular. I think Peter’s among the first to be doing this. We have a staff out on the road with us from Abbey Road that’s recording each night and then packaging it up for us.”

You joined Peter Frampton at the onset of Frampton Comes Alive! I guess that would be in 1975?

“I joined in 1975 right before the live album was recorded and I was kind of the last piece of the puzzle. He was looking for a bass player and my timing could not have been better.”

You played with the great Tommy Bolin prior to joining Frampton?

“It was the fact that I was playing with Tommy that got me to LA and where I needed to be positioned to capitalize on the Frampton thing. If I had never known Tommy I wouldn’t have been there. He was such a great player and my best friend and he went on to play with Deep Purple about the same time that I got the gig with Frampton. And we were out there together looking for a singer for our own band and we were struggling and times got tough so we both had to take gigs and we could’ve picked worst gigs I guess." (Laughing)

Yea, I saw Tommy play with both The James Gang and Deep Purple. He was just such a great guitarist.

“You know he was in Florida the night he died.”

I believe at the Newport Hotel in Miami.

“Jeff Beck who I just recently met told me the story. About two or three month ago I went to see Jeff because the great Narada Michael Walden is playing drums with Jeff Beck now and he was also Tommy’s drummer so there was a connection there. Jeff was a huge fan of Tommy and the Tommy Bolin band was opening for Jeff Beck when they were playing in Miami that night. So Jeff Beck is standing there and this was just back in May I went to see him play and he was telling me the story of how he and Jan Hammer walked in and found out that Tommy was dead. Just imagine that I’m standing there and talking with Jeff Beck and he’s telling me how he found my best friend dead in a hotel room.”

Everyone I’ve ever talked too about Tommy Bolin always said he was just such a nice, sweet man.

“You couldn’t meet a nicer and friendlier guy he’d make anybody smile and laugh. So if it hadn’t been for him I would have never met Peter. We were in LA together and Tommy’s earlier bass player Kenny Passarelli who I came in and replaced because Kenny had started playing with Joe Walsh. We all lived in Boulder Colorado right before all of this happened. So all these musicians are living in Boulder. Joe Walsh had moved there and had put his band together Barnstorm and Kenny Passarelli was the bass player in that band and Peter was a fan of Joe’s and Kenny’s playing and Kenny played a fretless bass like I did. Peter wanted someone that could play fretless bass so when he found out Kenny couldn’t do the job because he was too busy and I think Elton John was about to hire him but he said you should try this guy Stanley.  So I was in LA with Tommy at that time and I got Peter’s number and called him up.”

And the rest is history as they say. Did you have any idea after completing Frampton Comes Alive! that it may turn out to be a commercially successful giant?
Laughing! 

“Come on how could anybody know that. I tell the story that my advice to Peter was not to do a live album that he should get in the studio and make a highly polished studio record. And that’s the joke and my advice to Peter.”

Well I’m glad that he didn’t take your advice on that one.

“Yea me too.”

You played on the critically acclaimed Teaser Album with Tommy Bolin.

“Yea I played on just about every track. Yea I love that record and that’s how I met Narada Michael Walden who is Jeff Beck’s drummer now and Narada went on to produce Whitney Houston and kind of sculpted her career and he stepped back from playing drums after Mahavishnu to start producing and so a lot of people don’t really know about his playing ability and he’s just an unbelievable and unparalleled drummer. It’s incredible to see him with Jeff Beck now.”

Have you picked up any session work recently?

“No I have not been doing a lot I spent a decade working on my scholastic stuff you know and I took a lot of time off. I didn’t stop playing I was doing the Latin thing you know so I feel as a player I grew more then -then I would playing Coke commercials and jingles and stuff like that. But I don’t do a lot of sessions I never did but I wouldn’t mind at this late date getting a few more calls to do different types of music. I’m starting to get my feelers into the Nashville scene because Peter’s  base of operations is Nashville and two of the guys are from Nashville that are in the band. And I went on the road with Delbert McClinton two years ago and he’s in Nashville too. I’m starting to feel a kind of closeness with Nashville and yea there probably is some work there if I could get there and move there or something.”

I just got to ask you about working on the soundtrack of Cheech and Chong’s Up In Smoke.

“That’s going to be something to talk about till the day I die because everybody loved the movie so much. It was a lot of fun to do that. That’s when I was played with Waddy Wachtel Warren Zevon and those guys. We did most of the soundtrack I mean they used songs from other artist but all the background music was what we recorded for that movie. When they’re driving around in the van you hear the music in the background could be a reggae song or a rock song. I don’t think the songs we did really had names or anything we were just providing music for the background.”

So back to Frampton any plans for a new album once the tour is over?

“I think Peter is formulating what he wants to do and hopefully I can make some contributions on whatever they might be I’m planning on that we’ll see what happens. I hope to be touring with Peter for a long time.”

“Some other things The Tommy Bolin Foundation they’re always looking for someone who can step in and try and represent Tommy's skill as a player maybe as a tribute band we talked about putting something on the road to commemorate Tommy’s music. You know we do a thing in Sioux City Iowa every summer I mean I don’t always go every year but it’s like a tribute performance for Tommy and they get different players each year. But I know some people involved who would really like to see something go out on the road and play some major cities and put a really great band together so I’ve been talking with some people about that. So that could happen.”

“But other than that we’re going to continue on this 35th Anniversary tour even through 2012 and we’re going to come back and do more U.S. dates and we’re going to Europe in November and I imagine South America. I think in 2012 we’ll be playing but not quite as much as we did this year but certainly quite a bit.”

“Peter’s work ethic is really impressive and we’re all just in awe that he can get up there every night and play three-three and a half hour shows we’re all being inspired to follow suit. When he’s on stage man it’s a sight to behold.”

Stanley, thank you so much for taking time out from your busy tour schedule to speak with me. Good luck with the rest of the tour and I will be seeing you in Clearwater on Saturday night.

“Thanks Ray I look forward to meeting you at the show.”


Setlist
Something’s Happening
Doobie Wah
Line On My Face
Show Me The Way
It’s A Plain Shame
Wind Of Change
Penny For Your Thoughts
All I Want To Be (Is By Your Side)
Baby I love Your Way
I Wanna Go To The Sun
I’ll Give You Money
Do You Feel Like We Do
Shine On (Humble Pie Song)
Jumpin’ Jack Flash (Rolling Stones Cover)
Break:
Asleep At The Wheel
Restraint
Float
Boot It Up
Double Nickles
Vaudeville Nanna and the Banjolele
All I Want To Be (Is By Your Side)
Four Day Creep (Humble Pie song)
Off The Hook
Black Whole Sun (Soundgarden Cover)
Encore:
While My Guitar Gently Weeps (Beatles Cover)

Stanley Sheldon official website http://www.stanleysheldon.com/
Peter Frampton official website http://www.frampton.com/
Tommy Bolin Archives http://www.tbolin.com/
Ruth Eckerd Hall official website http://www.rutheckerdhall.com/

Special thanks to Cami Opere for arranging this interview and some great tickets.
And as always the entire Ruth Eckerd Hall staff. Especially Katie Pedretty.
Bobby Rossi you the man!

Order Ray Shasho’s new book Check the Gs –The True Story of an Eclectic American Family and Their Wacky Family Business at amazon.com, iuniverse.com, barnesandnoble.com or borders.com.

“I found Check the Gs to be pure entertainment, fantastic fun and a catalyst to igniting so many memories of my own life, as I too am within a few years of Ray.  So to all, I say if you have a bit of grey hair (or no hair), buy this book!  It’s a great gift for your “over-the-hill” friends, or for their kids, if they are the history buffs of younger generations trying to figure out why we are the way we are.”~~Pacific Book Review


Contact Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com

Ray Shasho with Frampton Bassist Stanley Sheldon

Stanley Sheldon on stage

Interview: Tommy James (Shondells) talks about 'Me, the Mob, and the Music'

 Tommy James signing a management agreement with Leonard Stogel far left. Roulette Records President Morris Levy looks on.

 By Ray Shasho

I had the unique privilege of speaking with legendary hitmaker Tommy James of The Shondells recently about his infamous and often intimidating association with Roulette Records and the “Godfather” of the music business Morris Levy.
After Tommy James and his family moved to Niles, Michigan he assembled what became a very popular local act called The Tornadoes. A local deejay asked the band to sign with his new label called Snap Records. One of the tunes recorded was a catchy rock and roll ditty written by Jeff Barry and Ellie Greenwich called “Hanky Panky.”

The song quickly became a local hit and then rapidly faded away into oblivion.

Two years later an improbable occurrence unfolded when “Hanky Panky” was discovered in a record bin by a nightclub deejay in Pittsburgh. He began playing the newly discovered 45 at weekend dances and the response was beyond overwhelming. A local record distributer bootlegged it and sold 80,000 copies in just ten days. By May of 1966 “Hanky Panky” became a number one hit in Pittsburgh. Later a promoter hunted down Tommy in Niles, Michigan and urged him to come to Pittsburgh where he was already a huge sensation.
A young and impressionable Tommy James would soon be trying to sell “Hanky Panky” to the largest record companies in New York. With an original copy from Snap Records and a bootleg copy in hand the executives from all the major labels positioned themselves to sign the rock and roll Boy Wonder. Strangely the next morning Tommy received a phone call informing him that all those record companies that were so eager to sign him had decided to pass. A disconcerted James then received a call from Jerry Wexler of Atlantic records who informed Tommy that he received a call from Morris Levy president of Roulette Records. The message was made crystal clear to Wexler and all the other record execs.

Levy said, “This is my F’ing record! Leave it alone.”
(Hanky Panky became number one on the charts in America and the biggest summer hit of 1966.)

Thus began the infamous relationship between Tommy James, Roulette Records and music mogul/gangster Morris Levy. After every crime family member connected to Roulette Records had passed away, Tommy James was compelled to profess his incredible story. So with help from author Martin Fitzpatrick, James confessed his story into a book called Me, the Mob, and the Music which became a Simon and Schuster best seller.
At 64, Tommy James may be entering an exciting second leg of his life. A movie is forthcoming by Goodfellas, Casino, The Color of Money and Cape Fear producer Barbara De Fina. Also a Broadway musical will be scripted by Oscar- nominated actor Chazz Palminteri along with brand new Tommy James compositions in addition to all of his greatest hits.

Tommy James has sold over 100 million records and was awarded 23 gold singles plus nine gold and platinum albums. Some of his legendary hits include “Hanky Panky,” “I Think We’re Alone Now,” “Mony Mony,” “Crimson and Clover,” “Crystal Blue Persuasion,” “Sweet Cherry Wine” and “Draggin’ The Line.”
During 1968-69 Tommy James and The Shondells sold more single records (45s) than any artist in the world, including The Beatles.

Here’s my interview with legendary singer/songwriter/performer/musician/'60s icon… and just a great guy Tommy James.

Tommy how are you doing?

“What’s going on?”

Right off the bat, I want to say that I loved the book, as an author myself; I noticed the story get’s right to the point, no filler and no fluff. I hate fluff in a story.

“So do I.”

Martin Fitzpatrick did a fantastic job with the story.

“Thank you very much I’ll tell him you said that. And you know it’s a story that I’ve been waiting to tell for a very long time and couldn’t. It was very therapeutic for me I’ve been carrying this around for a long time.”

What’s the status of your movie deal and Broadway musical?

“Well they’re both going to happen. The musical is going to come out about six months to a year before the movie that’s the schedule. Basically what we’re talking about is Chazz Palminteri by the way the great actor from you’ve seen A Bronx Tale; he was Sonny the Gangster in A Bronx tale and he was in Analyze This and so many great movies, a lot of mob movies actually, is going to write the actual Playbook -he and I will write the dialogue and the script together and he’s going to play Morris Levy. He’s perfect he even looks like Morris.
"One of the things I love about talking to Chazz Palminteri is he grew up in the Bronx right where Morris did. You know thirty years younger but he knew these guys. You know the movie A Bronx Tale the little kid (Cologero ‘C’ Anello) that’s him when he was little. He played ‘Sonny the Gangster’ but those were all real characters.
"Plus there are about nine new songs that are going to be in it in addition to the greatest hits. Well let’s put it this way we’ve written nine new songs if we get five or six that will be great. There’s going to be a lot of new music mixed in with the old music and so it’s going to be a true musical. We’re slated for about 18 to 24 months and that’s pretty ambitious but that is the plan so far.
"And then the film is going to be produced by Barbara De Fina who produced Goodfellas, Casino, Cape Fear, The Last Temptation of Christ and The Color of Money with Paul Newman. She’s going to be producing the film and we’re going to be selecting directors and doing all that fun stuff over the next month or two.”

Wow, what a resume.

“Oh just incredible her movies are all over you know you see them every week on TV somewhere.”

Who are they getting to play Tommy James in the musical?

“That’s a great question that’s above my pay scale. I’m going to get quite an education over the next two or three years that’s all I can say.”

How long of a contract did you sign with Morris Levy and Roulette Records?

“Well it was a standard form contract but the problem was it didn’t matter. The contract was fine. When we signed with Roulette 'Hanky Panky' exploded out of Pittsburgh. And we went to New York to sell the master and I still got hayseed in my mouth from the Midwest -- I’m eighteen years old and first trip to New York and 'Hanky Panky' was number one in Pittsburgh and you know the story.”

It’s amazing that someone had dug that single out of a record bin in Pittsburgh two years after you recorded it in Niles, Michigan. 

“It’s really a miracle! So when I went there and sort of grabbed the first bar band that I could find and called them the Shondells because I couldn’t put the original band back together. So we all head to New York and we get a 'yes' from everybody. From Columbia, Epic, RCA, Atlantic, remember Kama Sutra Records and so the last place we took the record to was Roulette. And I go to bed that night feeling great because everybody wanted the record and we were probably going to go with Columbia or RCA. So all of a sudden the next day I start getting calls about 9AM from all the record companies saying listen we got to pass. And I said what do mean we got to pass I thought we had a deal. Finally Jerry Wexler out of Atlantic leveled with us and said Morris Levy called all the record companies and said, 'This is my F’ing record, back off!' He scared everybody and they backed off and that’s quite literally how we ended up on Roulette. And once we got up there it was pretty obvious what they were. We started recognizing people from TV very notorious gangsters you know.”

The real Soprano characters use to hang out at Roulette Records right?

“Absolutely, well Morris was Moishe. Moishe was Hesh. Of course Morris was a lot scarier than Hesh. But the point is the head of the Genovese family was his business partner up there Tommy Eboli and oh man we’d meet somebody in Morris’s office and a week later we’d see him on TV doing the perp walk in handcuffs with police out of some warehouse in New Jersey … 'Hey isn’t that the guy we just met at Morris’s?' And so what it all boiled down to was that Roulette was used from everything from a social club to illegal bank accounts to drug deals and strange boxes showing up and disappearing.”

Besides Roulette Records, do think there were other shady dealings going on in the music business back in the '60s?

“Oh no, let’s put it this way Roulette Records was ground zero for all that crap. And no doubt about it Roulette was a front for the Genovese crime family. And you know the top mobsters from the Genovese family were all partners up there -- I don’t know if I want to say partners they all just showed up. And Morris although he was Jewish was definitely a mobster he may not have been a made guy but he was everything else. And you know they’d use Morris’s office for sit downs and it was a very notorious bunch of people up there.”

In the book you talk a lot about working the phones at Roulette to help promote your records.

“Definitely with Red Schwartz. Red Schwartz taught me the radio business -- when I say work the phone’s he was the head of national promotions and Red taught me the industry and we literally worked every station in the world. He’d call the station and get the PD (Program Director) on the phone and talk crap to them and then say, 'Hey guess who just walked in the office?' So I’d sit down and talk with them and meet them on the phone and there’s no doubt about it that personal touch was why we got so much success and Morris cracking the whip.

We ended up with 23 gold singles at Roulette and nine gold and platinum albums and about 110 million records sold. And the main thing I want to say is if we had gone with one of the corporate labels Columbia or RCA or even one of the subsidiaries like Epic or something I could tell you right now we would have been lost in the numbers especially with a record like “Hanky Panky” starting out it would have been handed to some in-house A&R guy and we would have been a one-hit wonder.

At Roulette they actually needed us and left us alone and allowed us to be in charge of our own career. And allowed us to mores into whatever we wanted to become. And thankfully we had the public’s attention long enough where we could do that. We were involved anywhere from radio promotion to album design and then producing the record and writing the songs we were allowed to do it all. That would have never happened at any other label. I got an education that would have never happened anywhere else but getting paid was just not going to happen we were just not going to get mechanical royalties.”

So the only way you really made any money was from on the road?

“We made money on the road, we made money from BMI, we made money from commercials there’s a lot of revenue sources other than the mechanical royalties but the royalties were huge we ended up getting cheated out of between 20-30 million dollars.”

Even though they cheated you out of millions there were positive impacts as a result of signing with Roulette Records and dealing with those guys although scary as they were also exhibited a sort of charisma.

“Plus the fact that nobody is ever going to mess with you and secondly from a creative standpoint we couldn’t have made a better decision because we were king of the castle and we were given keys to the candy store and anything we wanted we got except our royalties. And I guess what I’m saying is I had a constant decision whether to take my life in my hands and try to leave and get out of that or go along with it and just play ball. And I think we made the right decision because in the end I get to tell the story and this story is probably going to be the biggest project that I’m ever going to be involved in. So there is universal justice.”

In the book you actually kept Frank Sinatra waiting downstairs in a hotel lobby and you never showed up to meet with him. That could have been worse than working for Morris Levy.

“Yes, that’s a true story. I just can’t believe some of the things that got overlooked and some of the things like not going to Woodstock and oh God the mistakes you make because you don’t think it. You don’t think of your life as being a story when you’re living it it’s just happening so fast.”

You know I couldn’t write a fictional story as good as your nonfictional life events.

“I know you can’t make this crap up. But you know whenever I go to say something really nasty about Morris Levy and Roulette I got to stop myself because the truth is if it hadn’t of been for Morris Levy there wouldn’t have been a Tommy James. And that’s the truth.”

Ironically Chapter 10 in my book is titled The Newport – Miami Beach. And you also talk about the Newport Hotel in your book.

“Well you know my second wife had a relative his name was Red Pollack had an uncle who ran the Newport and he was very mobbed-up. I mean the Newport was a Mob front. And the Miami Mafia basically developed Morris Levy and sent him back to New York. But I always loved going down there.

You know Morris could really shake the universe if he really wanted to. He could get up and get things done they didn’t call him the Godfather of Rock and Roll for nothing. The two songs in the show where I’ve got Morris talking not singing and one of them is at the signing and it’s called 'A Hell Of A Ride' that’s the name of the song and it’s almost like a rap thing but he’s talking over drums. We can’t actually get a hip hop beat but it’s over drums and 'He’s talkin’ like dis you know' (gangster voice) and the other one is up on his farm and this is later on like in Act II. We’d get loaded up on his farm and I actually asked him why he hung out with these people? And he looked at me like what the hell you asking me a question like that for. And he said (in Tommy’s gangster voice), 'These are the people I came off the streets with this is who I am' and I thought what a great moment for a song so I wrote a song called 'That’s Who I Am' and that’s the second song Morris is going to do. He had a reach like you can’t believe I mean if you wanted to get something done you called Morris and it would get done.”

Morris Levy fled the country during the mob wars and you were basically a sitting duck.

“My lawyer Harold Orenstein had me go down to Nashville. And you know I ended up doing an album down there with Elvis’s guys. The front cover of the book was taken right during that time and right after 'Draggin’ the Line' was released in 1971 when the gang wars was going on and I snuck back to New York and they had a party for me up at the Persian room at the Plaza Hotel where I got something like eighteen gold records and that was that night. And then I had to go back to Nashville and snuck into town and that’s when that picture was taken.”

Did you ever collaborate with Elvis while you were down there?

“I would have loved to. While I was down there he was going to come over from Memphis and take us all to dinner and he got stoned and couldn’t make it over. And he invited us to Graceland and I never went I just put it off and I was doing other things and pretty soon he was gone.”

It didn’t seem like Elvis collaborated with many other musicians outside his circle.

“He was very paranoid of his own little circle and nobody really got into that. And it’s too bad because I’m sure that if he had a few more friends and there’d be a Betty Ford Center he might have been alive today because he really did himself in. I loved Elvis too. Elvis was the reason that I started playing.”

So many people feared your boss Morris Levy.

“It wasn’t that they were just afraid of him he actually knew people I mean Cardinal Spellman would come by isn’t that incredible? Then Morris got arrested in the late '80s and he died of cancer before he could serve a day.”

Didn’t Morris Levy go after John Lennon?

“He threatened John Lennon. May Pang told me that she and John were up at Morris’s farm and she told me that Morris flat out threatened the both of them. Morris didn’t have respect for anybody. How it started 'Come Together' sounded too much like a song Chuck Berry wrote. So Morris sued him and won. And so the settlement was Morris had John do a bunch of songs and he was going to put them out. Morris jumped the gun and put out the demos and Capitol came down and said you can’t do that and sued him. Morris lost that case but Morris never loses so he threatened the two of them and it got very serious. And that’s when Lennon died a lot of people suspected Morris. But I don’t believe that happened that was pretty much a one man show.

Listen he was doing business with the guy up in LA that the kids killed the parents -- the Menendez and he was doing business with him and so people suspected him of that too before they found out that it was the kids.”

When was the last time that you saw Morris Levy?

“When he offered me a record label. I went up in the late '80s to Roulette and I don’t know what possessed me to go up there and see Morris. I went up and he was looking like an old man just fifty pounds heavier than I’d seen him and he was only in his 50s and he was 62 when he died so he was like 56 or 57. And I went up and he was still on Broadway but it was really kind of a crummy looking office and Art Kass was up there Art ran Buddah.

And so I played him a couple of demos that I was working on and he said, 'That’s a F’ing hit,' it was a song called 'Distant Thunder' that I had written and behind Morris was this needlepoint sign in a frame saying 'Oh Lord give me a Bastard with talent' and it’s been there since as long as I’ve known him. The FBI had put a camera and a microphone in the ‘O’ of Lord. And that’s the camera and the microphone they nailed him on. They had a bird's-eye view of everyone sitting in front of Morris.

So this whole experience of playing him 'Distant Thunder' and him reacting to it and by the way he offered me a label not just a record company I told him I wanted a label but he wouldn’t allow me to collect my own money. So I would have been right back to where I was before and thank God not being able to do it. So anyway that was the last time that I saw him and that was the camera that got him arrested along with Vastola who went to jail and Morris died. You know the thing that got Morris arrested finally caught and convicted was his relationship with MCA. MCA was very mobbed-up.”

You got your royalties back when Roulette Records was sold right?

“I got a lot of them. I had pretty much resigned myself to the fact that we were going to lose a lot of money. And so when they sold the company it was kind of a birthday present. They sold to Rhino which is part of Warner Brothers. But originally it distributed actually Rhino by EMI for Sultan and then they went with Warner. And so the publishing company Big Seven Music is now with EMI and the masters are with Warner so you’ve got the two biggest companies in the world with the music.

Now we have started our own label and I have my own publishing company and we are putting out our own product you know we put out our own DVD we’ve got the greatest hits all over the world now and we  license to movies but we’re doing as well in many respects as we were doing in the '60s. I really can’t complain about how much we lost now.”

I know you’ve gone through the ups and downs at Roulette records and of course with Morris Levy, but it  seems to me that you got some really good breaks throughout your career too.

“I’ve certainly have had my share of ups and downs but the truth is I have had so many miracles in my life happen -- just the way I got into the business to the way I stayed in the business and you know I’ve been doing this for forty-six years now and actually if you tally it up from before that it’s close to fifty and I’m just very, very thankful to the good Lord and the fans for the kind of longevity that we’ve had its been really remarkable. I was very fortunate to make it when I did because you know every block had a cover band on it. Especially back in the early '60s when being a rock musician was a job opportunity.”

I really think there was a greater opportunity for garage bands to make it big back in those days too.

“I do too. There are so many young bands that are busting their ass and are trying to make it. Radio is really no more and getting new music in front of the public is the greatest challenge in the world right now. Just making it into the entertainment business you’re talking about a business by definition is -- a desperate industry by the people in it are just desperate to make it. There’s so much error and very few people who show you how to make a straight line in show business. And the thing that makes it even tougher is that there’s so many different ways to make a straight line and so many of them are a matter of being lucky. When I talk to young bands we do a lot of seminars in addition to with the new book I do a lot of talking to people and face to face about it. And there are a few ways a few things you can do right now that make sense. We’re in such a weird moment right now and especially in the music business.”

I guess our horrendous economy has taken its toll on the entertainment business as well. 

“It sure has but not only that but because of essentially the economy the radio industry has really folded. When I came up about two dozen Top 40 AM stations blanketed the United States with 50,000 watt stations. The average hit record was heard by 150-200 million people. Today there’s nothing. There’s really no way other than the internet of course and as fun as it is has never really taken the place of those kinds of numbers.”

You’re preaching to the choir, brother. When I was on the radio as a Top 40 deejay back in the late '70s and early '80s -- radio was still radio. But I agree wholeheartedly that the radio biz has lost its direction and basically has folded.

“I’m actually seeing some light at the end of the tunnel as far as what we call the record business if it can be called that anymore. I really believe once Hi-Def TV comes into its own that is a melding of computer technology and TV technology. I really think the whole music industry is going to move to television and I don’t mean like MTV. I think we’re going to have like the Sony Channel, the Warner Channel and of course they’re going to premiere new music but more than that I think we’re going to have networks of video radio stations and what I mean is you know the stations are already there. Remember what Don Imus did about twelve years ago when he put digital cameras in his radio booth and became the number one show on morning television.

There’s no reason you can’t do that with music radio. And my belief is that we’re going to see digital cameras put in the broadcast booth and you’re going to have networks of stations – somebody is going to have to program it it’s going to have to be sort of a total entertainment format like the old Top 40 was. Top 40 back in the '60s was a combination of new music, oldies you’d be on one radio station and get Frank Sinatra or Led Zeppelin. You’d have five different stations today you’d have Aretha Franklin, The Beatles, oh God Walter Brennan had a hit back in the early '60s I mean that’s how crazy it got and today that would be five different radio stations.

So my point is that if you had a sort of total entertainment format with let’s say thirty or forty stations flying a network and you call it 'Spins' or something I don’t know and you’d have a central location like New York and they’d be saying, 'Hey let’s go out to Seattle what are you guys doing out there and ... blah blah blah' and they’re playing six or eight songs and they’re showing around the town or maybe videos made by the groups or maybe around the radio station who the hell knows. But if you give these jocks face time they’ll love you and you can break new music and probably bring the charts back. You can probably make a chart based on downloading … I’m getting really fanatical here I’ve got to stop myself. But I’m very serious I really believe having a downloading capacity of the music you’re playing and creating charts based on the downloading.”

So you’re watching TV and a new song comes on that blows you away and so you download it using the remote, something kind of like Pay-Per-View?

“I mean they’ve already got your billing information. You can either do it right from your TV which will probably be available soon or you could go on their website. Now you can have advertisers but essentially this is a huge revenue stream. I use to talk with Pat Clarke when XM was up and running and I said, 'Why the hell don’t you have on your boomboxes a button to push for downloading you’ve got everybody’s billing information and you’ve got every song in the world digitized?' Well I never got a straight answer. But I mean somebody’s going to do that.”

Unfortunately, we don’t have innovators like Don Kirshner or Dick Clark around anymore to get the job done.

“What you got to do is you’ve got to have somebody that can hook up with like a Comcast somebody that can really make a network on television and it will be done I’m telling you. I have great confidence in greed.”

Speaking of innovators in the world of entertainment Ed Sullivan screwed up your name when you appeared on his show.

“We were on three times; the third time we didn’t get on because Nixon gave his Cambodia speech. But it’s actually kind of a compliment now to have your name screwed up by Ed Sullivan. It’s something to tell your grandchildren.”

He made mistakes all the time; why didn’t he do a little research about the bands before introducing them?

“By the end of the show he was tanked. He was loaded. If you were the headlining act you never knew he’d have you on twice during the show the first time he’s pretty okay and the second time you’d be lucky if he remembered who you were. Plus he’d do things like you’d hold out your hand to shake his hand and he wouldn’t see it. He’d just stand there looking like an idiot.

The second time we were on I didn’t even talk about this in the book but we did 'I’m Alive' and 'Ball Of Fire' and we headlined again and I’m standing on a four-foot riser and he comes running at me and he’s going to jump up on this thing and no way because Sullivan wasn’t big he was small and he gets one foot up there and slides and he’s falling backwards and I grab him and this is while we’re on camera and I’m posing with my arms above my head you know 'Ball Of Fire' and he jumps up on this thing and I grab him and I pull him up on stage and if I hadn’t he would have killed himself. And he said, 'Tommy my boy there’s only one thing left to say' and I’m looking at him like what-what-what? So I figure he’s saying good night and so I said, 'Good night everybody!' and it wasn’t time to go off the air. And so I’m standing with him and they fade to black and showed a commercial and then come back and we’re still standing there. So all the miscues that could happen you could blow your cool a hundred different ways doing Sullivan and that’s if you made it through the song.”

Didn’t they tape the show a couple of times in front of two different audiences?

“Yes they would record at five in the afternoon that was a dress rehearsal and they’d run that simultaneously and then they’d do it at seven o’clock, Sullivan came on at eight o’clock. They would run the five o’clock show and the seven o’clock show at eight o’clock the show was videotaped but it was videotaped as a live show. So if you screwed up it stayed on. And there were two different audiences.”

A lot of those performances were also lip-synced right?

“Usually what they would do is they would have the lead singer singing live and everything else would be prerecorded. On my case I actually talked them into letting me do 'Crimson and Clover' as a lip-sync because there’s no way they would have gotten the fade right or anything. So I begged them to let me lip-sync but they wanted a four track recording so they could mess with the mix and it didn’t sound like the record. So I gave them four tracks of mono.”

The Brits copied American rock and roll during the British invasion and of course American teenagers went crazy over the Brits. But rock and roll was invented right here in the U.S.A.

“I’ve always viewed it as America and the Brits riding this gigantic song called rock and roll together. And that’s why it is so sad to see the damn thing fall apart because the rock and roll industry was typically an American industry and to see it dissolve like this is one of the saddest things I’ve ever seen.”

You were one of a few bands from the '60s that came from Top 40 singles AM Hitmakers and were able to cross over into album rock FM radio.

"'Crimson and Clover' did that for us. There was this mass extinction in 1968. I equate this with the Humphrey presidential campaign in '68. We went out with Humphrey and when I left in August the biggest acts on the radio were The Turtles, The Rascals, The Association, Gary Puckett, us, and I come back ninety days later and it’s Led Zeppelin, Crosby, Stills and Nash, Blood Sweat and Tears all album mix. That is how quickly the world turned upside down in the record business.

And none of those groups that I just mentioned ever had another hit after that. There were a few acts that went on like The Doors, Sly and the Family Stone and us and a few others like Neil Diamond but honestly and I mean American acts, the British acts kind of went on and of course The Rolling Stones. But there was this mass extinction and nobody talks about it and somehow it got unnoticed. Thankfully we were working on 'Crimson and Clover' at that exact moment. And 'Crimson and Clover' was the only single I could think of we ever did that would allow us to make that move from AM Top 40 singles to FM Progressive Album Rock. And also let’s start selling albums we had never sold albums before. We were all about singles.”

I covered Joan Jett in Tampa this year and even liked her version of “Crimson and Clover.”

“There are almost 400 covers of our stuff. She’s been one of the more successful ones but we’ve had everyone from R.E.M. to just last year Prince and of course there’s been a bunch of hip-hop artists sampling 'Draggin’ The Line' for some reason.”

Didn’t Morris Levy place “Draggin’ The Line” on one of his infamous cut-out albums while it was still on the charts and classified as a hit?

“I tell the story in the book when 'Draggin’ The Line' came out I’m sitting in LA ready to do American Bandstand that’s what I went out there for. And by the way that was the day of the famous earthquake of 1971. Anyway so I’m sitting there in LA and all of a sudden on TV I see 'Draggin’ The Line' advertised as a cut-out and that devalues the song from about 90%. So it goes from being worth a dollar to being worth about a dime when it’s on a cut-out. And I just flipped my lid the song is number two and it’s a cut-out … just incredible.”

Tommy, thank you so much for spending time with me today. I can’t wait to see both the Broadway musical and the movie, they’re going to be great!

“Ray, it’s been a pleasure talking with you thank you very much.”

Special thanks to Carol Ross- Durborow for arranging this interview.

Tommy James and the Shondells official website https://www.tommyjames.com/
Order Tommy James' book -- Me, the Mob, and the Music at amazon.com

Order Ray Shasho’s new book Check the Gs -- The True Story of an Eclectic American Family and Their Wacky Family Business at amazon.com



“I found Check the Gs to be pure entertainment, fantastic fun and a catalyst to igniting so many memories of my own life, as I too am within a few years of Ray.  So to all, I say if you have a bit of grey hair (or no hair), buy this book!  It’s a great gift for your “over-the-hill” friends, or for their kids, if they are the history buffs of younger generations trying to figure out why we are the way we are.”~~Pacific Book Review

Contact Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com

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