Tom Johnston Interview: Doobie Brothers timelessly rockin’ down the highway

By Ray Shasho

The Doobie Brothers are one of those bands that we’ve depended on, year after year, and expect to see performing invariably at outdoor music festivals, pavilions, arenas, casinos and bike week events across the nation. The group has been exhilarating audiences for decades yet appear timeless onstage. One of the principal reasons for the longevity and success of the Doobie Brothers has a lot to do with an unmitigated affection shared between the band and its audience. It’s been an amazing love affair that has persevered for over forty-two years. When the Doobie Brothers finally call it quits … rock ‘n’ roll will probably call it quits too.

 Tom Johnston is the voice, lyricists and guitarist on numerous classic hit recordings by the Doobie Brothers. Inspired by listening to R&B music on the radio, California native Johnston started his first band at 14, eventually broadening his musical horizons by singing with soul and blues groups.

After moving to San Jose to finish college, Tom met Skip Spence, original drummer for the Jefferson Airplane. Spence introduced Johnston to drummer John Hartman. Spence was also a founding member of Moby Grape which had a major influence on the Doobie Brothers. Tom Johnston, John Hartman and bassist Greg Murphy formed the power trio “Pud.”
When “Pud” unraveled, the evolution of the Doobie Brothers began to take shape. While living in a home dubbed as their “musical headquarters,” guitarist Patrick Simmons and bassist Dave Shogren joined the group. The band quickly generated a huge following in California.

In 1971, the Doobie Brothers launched their self- titled debut album, The Doobie Brothers on the Warner Brothers label with legendary producers Ted Templeman and Lenny Waronker. The first track on the album, “Nobody” penned by Tom Johnston, would later resurface in 2010 on their latest release, World Gone Crazy.
Their second studio album Toulouse Street (named for a street in the French Quarter of New Orleans) introduced new bassist Tiran Porter and second drummer Michael Hossack (Navy Veteran). The album spawned the Tom Johnston penned classic hits, “Listen to the Music” (#11 Top 100 Billboard Hit -1972), “Rockin’ Down the Highway” and “Jesus Is Just Alright,” (#35 Billboard Top 100 Hit -1973) written by Arthur Reynolds (1965) and performed by The Byrds (1969).

In 1973, the Doobie Brothers released, The Captain and Me spotlighting some of the bands most memorable classic rock tunes penned by Tom Johnston … “Long Train Runnin’”(#8 Billboard Hot 100 Hit) and perhaps the bands anthem song, “China Grove” (#15 Billboard Hot 100 Hit). The Captain and Me also featured a guest performance by future Doobie Brothers and Steely Dan guitarist Jeff “Skunk” Baxter.

The Doobie Brothers fourth studio album, What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits released in 1974 spawned the Tom Johnston penned songs, “Another Park, Another Sunday”(#32 Billboard Hot 100 Hit) and “Eyes of Silver”(#52 Billboard Hot 100 Hit). The album also featured Pat Simmons penned tribute to “The Big Easy,” “Black Water” (#1 Billboard Hot 100 Hit -1975).

Stampede released in 1975 was the final album before Michael McDonald took over lead vocalist duties from an ailing Tom Johnston. The album featured the cover version, “Take Me in Your Arms (Rock Me A Little While)” (#11 Billboard Hot 100 Hit -1975) written by the Motown team of Holland-Dozier-Holland.

Subsequent albums …Takin’ It to the Streets (1976), Livin’ on the Fault Line (1977), Minute by Minute (1978) and One Step Closer (1980) featured a successful second incarnation of the band, which primarily consisted of Michael McDonald(vocals, keyboards) Patrick Simmons (guitars/vocals) Jeff “Skunk” Baxter (guitars, steel guitars), Tiran Porter(bass, vocals), John Hartman (drums) and Keith Knudsen (drums).
*Tom Johnston played and sang on, “Turn It Loose” and “Wheels of Fortune” on the album Takin’ It to the Streets.
John McFee was added to the Doobie Brothers lineup in 1979 replacing Jeff “Skunk” Baxter and was featured on One Step Closer.

After a successful run, the bands signature sound and direction became disillusioned. While working on his solo project, Tom Johnston rejoined the band for a Farewell Tour, and then the Doobie Brothers would call it quits as a band for the next five years.

The reformation of the Doobie Brothers was contrived when the bands alumni were asked by drummer Keith Knudsen to perform at a concert to benefit veterans’ causes. The band discovered that tickets were in great demand and soon embarked on a twelve city tour.

In 1989, Cycles the tenth studio recording by the Doobie Brothers, now on Capitol Records, witnessed the return of Tom Johnston and drummer Michael Hossack to the studio as a band. Tom Johnston’s distinctive vocals returned and the band reestablish their musical roots.

Subsequent releases … Brotherhood (1991), Sibling Rivalry (2000) and World Gone Crazy (2010).
World Gone Crazy was the Doobie Brothers highest charting album since 1989 receiving rave reviews and featuring the longtime core lineup of Tom Johnston and Pat Simmons. The Doobie Brothers band functions like a well-oiled machine, touring consistently year after year and enchanting music enthusiasts worldwide.

The current lineup of Tom Johnston (vocals/guitar), Pat Simmons (vocals/guitars), John McFee (guitar/strings/vocals), John Cowan (bass), Guy Allison (keyboards/vocals), Marc Russo (saxophones), Ed Toth (drums) and Tony Pia (drums)… represent a musical legacy that defines the quintessence of rock ‘n’ roll and a band that we’ve always depended on throughout the years.

The Doobie Brothers have sold more than 40-million albums worldwide.

…So why aren’t they in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

Tom Johnston and the Doobie Brothers will be performing live as part of the Bands, Brew & BBQ concert series at Busch Gardens in Tampa on Sunday, February 24th. For tickets visit … http://seaworldparks.com/buschgardens-tampa/Events/Bands-Brew-and-BBQ or call 1-888-800-5447 for further information.
Eagle Rock Entertainment recently released ‘Let The Music Play’ –The Story of The Doobie Brothers on DVD, Blue-ray and Digital Video. -Available to purchase at amazon.com.

I had the great pleasure of speaking with Tom Johnston recently about the bands current and future projects, family, and the future of rock ‘n’ roll. Here’s my interview with singer/songwriter/guitarist/and founding member of classic rock legends the Doobie Brothers … TOM JOHNSTON.
Ray Shasho: Good morning Tom.
Tom Johnston: “Good morning Ray, how are you?”
Ray Shasho: You guys just performed at the Lucky Star Casino in Concho last night, are you still in Oklahoma?
Tom Johnston: “No, we’re in Dallas right now. We drove here over night, it took about six hours … but I’m happy to be moving on down the road.”
Ray Shasho: Well, the band will be playing in Tampa on Sunday as part of the Bands, Brew & BBQ concert series at Busch Gardens. We’ve had a bit of a cold spell here lately Tom; you might need to bring your jacket when you play on Sunday.
Tom Johnston: “Is that right, it’s like that every place we’ve been so far …it’s freezing.”
Ray Shasho: You’ll be playing solo at ‘Petty Fest’ at The Fillmore in San Francisco also this month.
Tom Johnston: “Oddly enough, I’ll be playing a show in Hollywood, then getting up the next day, flying alone and playing that same night in San Francisco. It was ‘Dylan Fest’ and now it’s ‘Petty Fest.’ It’s a benefit for the ‘Sweet Relief Music Fund & The Musicians Cancer Fund.’ A musician based charity that takes care of players that have had any number of things going on like stroke or cancer. It’s been very helpful, we’ve used it for this band and I know other bands that have used it. There a great organization, I’ve met with them a couple of times and they’ve really helped a lot of people.”
Ray Shasho: Unfortunately there are a lot of musicians who can’t get health care either. I know plenty of guys without it.
Tom Johnston: “Isn’t that a drag? Hopefully that’s all going to change.
Ray Shasho: Tom did your parents encourage your music career?
Tom Johnston: “No way. (Laughing)
Ray Shasho: What did your parents do for a living?
Tom Johnston: “My dad had an automotive shop that my brother has now. Mom was a school teacher. She also helped my dad in his shop later on. My mom played piano a little bit but only once in a blue moon. My dad played saxophone but I hardly ever saw him play it, he was usually on mine when I brought it home from school. But they didn’t encourage me to get into the music business what-so-ever.”
Ray Shasho: I guess your dad wanted you to follow in his footsteps and work in his shop?
Tom Johnston: “Yea, I think so. I’m not mechanically sound; it’s just not my thing. But I did work over there for years … like working in the parts room or I’d work on engines but under the direction of somebody else.”
Ray Shasho: What would you be doing if you weren’t in the music business?
Tom Johnston: “I was studying to become a graphic designer, as a matter of fact was one semester short of my degree, although nowadays I’d probably have to start all over again. Yea, so if that didn’t happen would have gone straight into graphic design.”
Ray Shasho: I‘ve seen the Doobie Brothers perform at least 6 or 7 times since the early 70s. The band is timeless and always performs at the same energy level every concert. How do maintain that tremendous work ethic in the band?
Tom Johnston: “I don’t know it just happens. I can’t really point to one thing that really causes it… just the way it is. Everybody has a good time onstage and we try to let the crowd share in that as much as possible, because the crowd is what drives it. We have fun playing, but when the crowd is out there rockin …everything works better.”
Ray Shasho: The Doobie Brothers tour consistently every year and your schedule is still rather lengthy.
Tom Johnston: “Actually this year we wanted to pull back. We usually do around ninety shows a year and this year pulled it back to around seventy. When we put out the new album we did over a hundred shows that year in a very short period of time, we did that in about six months and included Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Canada and all the United States.”
Ray Shasho: Tom, I’m worried about rock ‘n’ roll …is it in jeopardy of disappearing?
Tom Johnston: “I don’t think it’s in jeopardy … I think what’s in jeopardy is just getting it available for people to hear. My son keeps me informed with what’s going on these days in rock ‘n’ roll. He’s a Metal-head, but he tells me about bands that I’ve never even heard of. I give him credit; he’ll listen to all types of music but he’s still a Metal-head. He went to see Dr. John the other night. But I think it’s just a matter of exposure and finding more independent labels that will facilitate that type of music. The advantage of using the internet is to push your product, play whatever you want, and get it out to a fair amount of people.”
Ray Shasho: Do you take advantage of all the modern technological conveniences?
Tom Johnston: “I have been for awhile. I use all kinds of software for writing and as far as recording everybody uses Pro Tools, that’s the state-of-the-art thing these days. The thing about that is it’s the demise of a lot of great studios. The strongest ones are still hanging in there, but a lot of the huge studios that were around for years are now gone. You can literally record in your bedroom with Pro Tools just as good as if you were recording in a fantastic studio, if you had the right gear.”
Ray Shasho: You recorded your most recent release World Gone Crazy in a studio.
Tom Johnston: “We did it in several studios actually. A little bit at John’s studio which is pretty much a full home studio and Pat did some work over in Hawaii and most of the basics were done at Sunset Sound. We also used various studios around LA to do overdub stuff and up in the Bay Area we used Studio D.”
Ray Shasho: World Gone Crazy was a terrific album and a breath of fresh air for today’s music scene.
Tom Johnston: “We enjoyed making it. We took our time making it and paid for it ourselves. I had fun doing all those songs on the album and tried things that I haven’t tried before.”
Ray Shasho: Like “Law Dogs?”
Tom Johnston: “Yea, that’s one of them. I’m not usually a slide guy but it worked pretty well. I had some help from John.”
Ray Shasho: Talk about your tune “Young Man’s Game” on the World Gone Crazy album.
Tom Johnston: “Just kind of poking fun more or less about being out here and doing this for so long. Seeing the kids coming up and semi-reminding them where it all came from. It’s really sort of tongue and check.”
Ray Shasho: I liked the Robert Johnson album art cover also.
Tom Johnston: “That’s off a painting in New Orleans somewhere and John must have taken a picture of that at some point in time, remembered it, and they tracked down the guy that painted it and asked him if he would allow us to use it for an album cover and he said sure go ahead. So we did.”
Ray Shasho: I’m sure it was fantastic working with Ted Templeman again. Are there future plans to work with Ted again on another album?
Tom Johnston: “As far as a brand new album with all new tunes … we haven’t really talked about it since we’ve been on the road a lot and just been working. There’s an album we’re talking about doing with a bunch of other artists …but it’s all Doobies tunes. I can’t really talk about it too much because the inks not on the paper yet and it’s still not a definite. So we’ll see what happens.”
Ray Shasho: My favorite Tom Johnston composition has always been, “Another Park, Another Sunday” and I told Pat my favorite tune of his was, “Clear As the Driven Snow.”
Tom Johnston: “We’ve been playing that live. We’re going to be doing a rehearsal here this week and working in some music that we haven’t played in forever and a day and see how it flies with the crowd. When we see you we’ll probably be playing some of that stuff …something new.”
Ray Shasho: Tom, do you have an amusing road story from back in the day?
Tom Johnston: “(Laughing) They’re all funny, either that or a mess. There’s always the one where the plane was going down in Detroit during a huge storm and we lost an engine. We thought that was going to be it. It was sometime in 1974. We did lose an engine, Jeff was up flying at the time and luckily Sam took over and got us landed …pretty exciting.”
Ray Shasho: I understand your daughter Lara is in the music business.
Tom Johnston: “She’s in the business and has recorded a lot of tunes. It’s a lot harder nowadays than it used to be, I can tell you that. She has an incredible voice and works at it tirelessly, always-always practicing. she’ll be finishing up school this year and I guess going to take it out in earnest, and have been so far, she’s probably recorded a whole album worth of tunes. But there are a lot of people doing that these days and I hope for her sake she does. I told her you’ve got to realize it’s not an easy business, but would back her up all the way if she wants to do it. There’s a lot more people trying to do it now than there used to be. I mean, everybody’s banging on the door.”
Ray Shasho: What type of music does Lara like to sing?
Tom Johnston: “She’s singing what she calls ‘Pop-Soul.’ She grew up singing R&B and that was her choice, I didn’t make her do that (All laughing). But she has a very distinctive sounding voice and has really worked herself hard to get where she is now. She practices hours a day singing and gigging as much as she can and has won various awards. We’ve had a gazillion people that have showed up banging on the door wanting to do something but it’s been the kind of folks that you really don’t want to do something with. I’ve actually had some of her songs given some airtime on the radio and the audience has always responded very-very positively. So it’s just a matter of getting the backers into this whole thing. That’s really what it’s all about. Check her out online at http://larajohnston.com”
Ray Shasho: How’s your bassist Skylark been doing after his stroke?
Tom Johnston: “He’s doing pretty good, living out in Las Vegas. He keeps his spirits up and is always determined; I really admire him for that. As to whether he’ll ever play again … I don’t know. ”
Ray Shasho: Tom one final question and I ask everyone that I’ve interviewed this same question …If you had a “Field of Dreams” wish like the movie, to play or collaborate with anyone from the past or present, who would that be?
Tom Johnston: “Wow, that’s a hard question to answer because for me, that’s a lot of people. I think for the day … I would get a kick out of working with Otis Redding. I absolutely loved Otis Redding.”
Ray Shasho: Tom, thank you so much for being on the call today, but more importantly for all the great music you’ve given to us throughout the years and hopefully a lot more music to come from the Doobie Brothers …we’ll see you in Tampa on Sunday!
Tom Johnston: “You’ve got a deal; we’ll be there …take care Ray!

The Doobie Brothers official website at www.doobiebros.com
Tom Johnston and the Doobie Brothers will be performing live as part of the Bands, Brew & BBQ concert series at Busch Gardens in Tampa on Sunday, February 24th. For tickets visit … http://seaworldparks.com/buschgardens-tampa/Events/Bands-Brew-and-BBQ or call 1-888-800-5447 for further information.
Eagle Rock Entertainment recently released ‘Let The Music Play’ –The Story of The Doobie Brothers on DVD, Blue-ray and Digital Video. -Available to purchase at amazon.com.
World Gone Crazy is the Doobie Brothers latest release and available to purchase at amazon.com.
Visit Lara Johnston’s (Tom’s daughter) official website at http://larajohnston.com

Very special thanks to Caroline Stegner of d. baron media relations

Contact classic rock music journalist Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com
Purchase Ray’s very special memoir called ‘Check the Gs’ -The True Story of an Eclectic American Family and Their Wacky Family Business … You’ll LIVE IT! Also available for download on NOOK or KINDLE edition for JUST .99 CENTS at amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com -Please support Ray so he can continue to bring you quality classic rock music reporting. 
~~Pacific Book Review says Ray Shasho is a product of the second half of the 20th century, made in the USA from parts around the world, and within him is every trend in music, television, politics and culture contributing to his philosophical and comically analytical reflections collected in his fine book of memories. I found Check the Gs to be pure entertainment, fantastic fun and a catalyst to igniting so many memories of my own life, as I too am within a few years of Ray. So to all, I say if you have a bit of grey hair (or no hair), buy this book! It’s a great gift for your “over-the-hill” friends, or for their kids, if they are the history buffs of younger generations trying to figure out why we are the way we are.

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Billy J. Kramer outraged over Brian Epstein’s absence from Rock Hall of Fame

By Ray Shasho

Billy J. Kramer, the British Invasion crooner and Merseybeat legend generally associated with The Dakotas, is on an incessant and heartfelt crusade to land Brian Epstein into The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Brian Epstein was both Kramer’s friend and manager.

Epstein discovered the debonair Liverpudlian songster and quickly arranged a union between Billy J. Kramer and the Manchester-based band The Dakotas. Both signed separate recording deals with Parlophone Records under producer George Martin. It was John Lennon who suggested that Billy personify a “tougher edge” by adding the “J” to his name.  

Epstein had recently launched The Beatles and was determined to sustain Merseybeat good fortune by asking Kramer to sing Lennon-McCartney cover tunes. Kramer recorded, “Do You Want to Know a Secret” (#2 UK Singles Chart in 1963) followed by the cover, “I’ll Be on My Way.” The song also reached #2 on the UK charts behind The Beatles, “From Me to You” for the number one spot.

1963 proved to be a pivotal year as Billy J. Kramer with The Dakotas continued to ride the success of Lennon-McCartney penned compositions  and scoring big with “Bad to Me” which became their first UK #1 Smash Hit. The following year, the single infiltrated the US charts becoming a Top 10 sensation. It was the first time a Lennon-McCartney penned song reached the Top 40 for an artist other than The Beatles. “Bad to Me” sold over a million units and was awarded gold disc status. The UK B-side was “I Call Your Name”

“I’ll Keep You Satisfied” recorded at Abbey Road Studios and under the direction of George Martin, reached #4 in the UK and finished at #30 on the US Charts. 

In 1964, Billy J. Kramer & The Dakotas recorded “From A Window,” the sixth and final Lennon-McCartney composition suggested to Kramer. The single reached #10 in the UK.

Billy J. Kramer & The Dakotas became a significant sector that successfully linked to the worldwide musical barrage of “The British Invasion.” The band earned prestigious bookings on numerous television shows in America like The Ed Sullivan Show, Hullabaloo and Shindig! They also appeared in the 1964 rocumentary film The T.A.M.I Show.  

Kramer didn’t want to be known as one of those guys that hung off The Beatles shirt-tails, so he reached out for new material. He chose a tune penned by Mort Shuman and J. Leslie McFarland entitled, “Little Children.”  The song skyrocketed and became the biggest hit for Billy J. Kramer with The Dakotas. Both “Little Children” and its flipside “Bad to Me” were huge Top 10 Hits for Kramer in the U.S. for 1964.

Kramer scored again in 1965 with the Burt Bacharach & Hal David composition “Trains and Boats and Planes” (#12 Hit) which also became a huge hit for Dionne Warwick in 1966.  Legendary guitar-hero Mick Green (Johnny Kidd & the Pirates) had also joined The Dakotas.

In 1967, after the death of their Manager Brian Epstein, The Dakotas and Billy J. Kramer parted ways. Kramer went on to a successful solo career performing at venues around the globe, including British Invasion-themed concerts.

In 1996, The Dakotas reformed with Billy J. Kramer and toured the UK.

After thirty years … Billy J. Kramer will be releasing his long-awaited new CD entitled, I Won the Fight, commemorating the 50^th anniversary of his first hit record. The CD includes the critically-acclaimed single, “To Liverpool With Love.” The CD is expected to be released sometime in late March or early April. Pre-sale-Special Limited Edition orders can be purchased now at http://billyjkramersite.com

On March 3-10, 2013 … Billy J. Kramer, Mark Hudson (Ringo Starr) and Joey Molland (Badfinger) will set-sail on The Fourth Annual ‘Cruise for Beatle Fans’ aboard Royal Caribbean’s Allure of the Seas. For more information visit www.musicinmocean.com

I had the pleasure of speaking with Billy J. Kramer recently about his campaign to get Brian Epstein enlisted into the non-performers’ section (Ahmet Ertegun Award) of The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Epstein was an entrepreneur, an innovator, and a very important historical figure in the music industry. Epstein was responsible for so many of the Merseybeat/British Invasion bands of the 1960s …including The Beatles, Billy J. Kramer, Gerry & the Pacemakers, Cilla Black, The Remo Four and The Cyrcle.

Billy’s thoughts about the British Invasion… “I always tell people … when I first saw The Beatles they were doing all cover versions, I just think we recycled a lot of American music.”

Here’s my interview with Merseybeat/British Invasion sensation …BILLY J.KRAMER.

Ray Shasho: Hello Billy …Happy 2013! 

Billy J. Kramer: “Thank you very much Ray!”

Ray Shasho: You’re calling from New York, do you live out there?

Billy J. Kramer: “I live in New York most of the time and live out in Santa Fe, New Mexico some of the time.”

Ray Shasho: Santa Fe is a beautiful area, have you been out to Roswell?

Billy J. Kramer: “Of course I have … that’s how I discovered Santa Fe.”

Ray Shasho: You’ve got a brand new CD coming out soon?

Billy J. Kramer: “It should be out late March or beginning in April. I have a single out at the moment which is on iTunes called, “To Liverpool With Love.” It’s a song that I wrote and recorded; about that period in the 60’s mentioning The Beatles and Brian Epstein …it’s that kind of song. I’ll be launching it all at ‘The Fest’ For Beatles Fans on April 6^th in Secaucus, New Jersey and performing these songs live with my own band. The band lineup is Liberty Devitto on drums, who used to be with Billy Joel for a long time, Adam Roth on guitars, Muddy Shews on bass, who used to be with Southside Johnny and Andy Burton on keyboards. They’re fun to play with and I love them all. It was amazing … these guys have played with a lot of big names and two years ago I went back to Liverpool with them and they were just like little kids. It was one of   the most fulfilling gigs in my career to go back there and play with these people.”   www.thefest.com

“This is actually the first time that I made an album. My albums were …I would sing songs off a piece of paper with the lyrics and most of the songs that I recorded … I never ever did them live. I’m not proud of that, this is the first time that I’ve written songs that I really wanted to do. And I never had the luxury of spending a lot of time in the studio until now. That’s why it’s called, I Won The Fight.”

Ray Shasho: Brian Epstein was so instrumental to your life and of course your music career. I’m also surprised that he’s not in The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame; he probably should have been inducted when The Beatles got in.

Billy J. Kramer: “Yes… why isn’t Brian Epstein in The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? It’s been a whole thing that I’ve tried to push for quite some time. The man that brought the biggest band to the world… and still the biggest band in the world is not in The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and I think it’s ludicrous. This is a man who pounded the pavements in London and suffered a lot of rejection, and I think The Beatles could quite easily been overlooked had it not been for what he did.”

Ray Shasho: I’m not so sure The Beatles had the discipline to make it without Brian.

Billy J. Kramer: “I’ll be very honest, coming from Liverpool at that time; it was very difficult to get any recognition from London. There were no studios in Liverpool, no TV, radio …there was nothing. And Brian to me was a great representative and he made it happen. I think he should get the recognition, it’s like he’s a forgotten man and I think that’s wrong. Let’s face it; it was the biggest thing that ever happened in Pop music, The Ed Sullivan Show sparked it… and I think it’s a disgrace.”

Ray Shasho: I’ve never put much stock in The Rock and Roll Hall of “Cronyism” anyway … there are so many legendary artists who haven’t already been elected and many who never deserved to be there in the first place. Maybe it should be the people who decides who gets in; after all, we’re the ones who bought the records.  

Billy J. Kramer: “Maybe I’m naive, but I never use to think it was that kind of thing, but as time went on, I saw people that are in there that shouldn’t be and others who were totally overlooked. I always thought that The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame should have been something that was for the fans. You’re right; the fans bought the records, made people stars, so that’s the way it should have been worked. Too me it’s … what do you consider rock and roll? Because there are people in there that I don’t consider rock and roll.   

Ray Shasho: Sorry, but I don’t consider The Beastie Boys …Rock and Roll.

Billy J. Kramer: “Good example… nothing against the guys, but it’s not Rock and Roll!”

Ray Shasho: I know so many dedicated music fans and aficionados that know more about the music than the artists themselves.

Billy J. Kramer: “I can show you fans that know more about me than I know about myself.”

Ray Shasho: (Laughing) It’s the truth …so many of us made music our lives and we weren’t musicians. We inhaled the music on a daily basis like breathing in the air.

Billy J. Kramer: “It’s a whole new world … when I was a kid; my big thing was to walk a few miles and go to a record store called Alan’s in Liverpool and pickup my records … that was my thing. To me it’s one of those things that will stay with me my whole life. It’s something I loved from the start and still love today.”

Ray Shasho: Did you play an instrument and join a rock band when you were in high school?

Billy J. Kramer: “Yes I did, I had a band with local friends and we were getting nowhere. So one day they said maybe you should front the band. I thought, well, it would be a novelty. The first show I did … I had the guitar on the stand and thought, if I get nervous I’ll pick up the guitar. I left the guitar in the dressing room and it was stolen. I couldn’t afford another guitar so that’s how it all started. I never wanted to be the frontman of a band; I just wanted to play behind somebody else.”

Ray Shasho: Billy, how were you first discovered as a singer?

Billy J. Kramer: “I was on the circuit playing the Cavern Club, the same sort of thing as The Beatles and all the local gigs, and there was a popularity poll in the Mersey Beat which was a local paper for the fans. They had a Top 20 poll and I came in third and was a nonprofessional. Brian Epstein saw me perform at this, and we all had to perform, and he gave a prize that was a tour of Scotland for the highest nonprofessional artist which was me. I had to turn it down because of my day job. I was going to leave Liverpool for a year as part of my training which was an engineer. Brian stepped in and offered me a contract … something I couldn’t turn down.”

“The rest is history … I had a number one hit with a Lennon and McCartney song before they recorded it, “Do You Want to Know a Secret” and then “Bad To Me” after that …and “I’ll Keep You Satisfied.”

Ray Shasho: “Bad To Me” was always my favorite; you did an incredible job with that Lennon and McCartney tune.

Billy J. Kramer: “Thank you very much … I enjoyed doing all of them, it was a bit of an ordeal at the time, I was only a young guy and a bit intimidated by the whole thing. It was a big step from being this blue-collar worker’s son to working with people like Georg Martin and people on that level. I read things in books …and in one particular book (I can’t remember which one it was) it said, Billy J. Kramer was number one with “Bad To Me” and the Beatles knocked him off by the end of the week. And the truth of the matter is … I hadn’t even heard the song. I remember that week distinctly because it was my twentieth birthday and John Lennon came up to me … he was reading the paper and said, “We just got into the charts in the states and by the way, I’ve got a song for you.”  I said are you going to play it?  He says “No, come to Abbey Road next time we’re recording.” Brian threw a party for me that night back at the hotel after the show, so I asked John again … Why don’t you just play it for me and he said, “No.””

“He finally played it to me at Abbey Road …he sat at the piano and played me the song. That’s how I got the song. People asked me, was there a demo… but that’s how I got the song. At the same time …John said to me, “I want to run a song by you and want your opinion,” it was, “I Want to Hold Your Hand.” To be in the room with him playing that song was awesome.”

Ray Shasho: I heard you wanted that song too?

Billy J. Kramer: “I did …yes. Somebody emailed me a thing last week where it said that I turned down, “A World Without Love,” but I didn’t; I never heard the song, only that Peter and Gordon had a hit record with it. I’m one of these people; I think it would be nice if a lot of this stuff would be historically correct.”  

Ray Shasho: The Liverpool music scene must have been incredible… and musicians quickly became a hot commodity, like the Detroit music scene eventually became in America.

Billy J. Kramer: “It was a very healthy live scene in Liverpool; I used to be out five or six nights a week playing at different places.”

Ray Shasho: “I chatted with Pete Best last week … such a great guy. What was your interpretation on the whole Pete Best firing from The Beatles?

Billy J.Kramer: “I think it’s one of those things that there hasn’t been an out an out answer. It just seems to me that …me as an onlooker, I saw Bob Wooler say…  Let’s hear it one more time for John, George, Paul… and when Pete Best walked back on the stage at the end of the show, young girls just went crazy. It’s something that always baffled me and I don’t have the answer. I saw The Beatles many-many times and Pete sounded great. I think they owed it to him to make amends.”

“I’ll be honest with you… on the early records Pete would have been fine, I don’t know as they progressed, if he would have progressed. I think Ringo did a great job. The bottom line was, it was their band and they did what they wanted to do. What we think is history now.”

Ray Shasho: What was Brian Epstein like?

Billy J. Kramer: “Brian Epstein was a class act. I don’t think there’s enough being said about him as a person. It must have been horrendous for Brian back then being gay while it was illegal. To go through that for any gay person had to be a nightmare and I have a lot of compassion. He did a lot for me. He’d come to my shows and never told me that he was going to come. He’d be there backstage after the show and critique the shows I did, how I introduced them, the lighting, the way the band played. He was a man for instance, when my mother died, if he was in Liverpool, he’d see my father and take him out to dinner. He always sent Christmas cards to my family and always showed up on my birthday.”

“You know it’s funny enough, like when John Lennon went on a vacation with Brian and everyone wondered …did they have this thing. Well, I came to New York with Brian and nobody ever asked me. (Laughing) And I mean it.”

“I did my thing and Brian did his thing and we’d meet up and have dinner and that was it.”

“When I went to see Brian we’d go out to dinner, play cards and hangout. He’d ask me who I thought would be number one on the charts and he was never too happy when I’d tell him that it wasn’t one of his acts.”

Ray Shasho: I studied footage on Brian that I’ve watched over the internet. He seemed to be extremely cordial and a very personable guy, but I also sensed, as he spoke with people, he always seemed to have something else on his mind.

Billy J. Kramer: “You mean he sometimes seemed preoccupied. I think he had a lot going on. And let’s face it he must have tried to hide his homosexuality because he got crucified for it. He also had a lot of responsibilities for all the acts he had. But Brian to me was a great representative the way he presented himself. I couldn’t see anyone else in Liverpool going and negotiating with some of these top companies the way he did. To me rock and roll today is still what it is because of him. The Beatles did that Shea Stadium thing and that was the start of big outdoor gigs. Honestly, when I came to America with Brian it was very difficult getting recognition coming over from England. Brian opened the doors for all of us. He did a great deal with Ed Sullivan; the best ever …and to me he brought The Beatles to the world.”    

Ray Shasho: Do you think Brian Epstein intended to end his life or do you feel it was an accident?

Billy J. Kramer: “All I know is that I went through a period where I was more interested in partying than my career and Brian wasn’t sort of pushing me the way he used to. Then I did this show at The Shakespeare Theatre in Liverpool and he came to see me, I’d stop drinking and was very slim. He came and saw the show, was very pleased and said, “I’m going to America … when I come back, let’s get together and work on a whole new thing.” He looked better than previous times that I’d seen him. Then I remember that I got a letter on the Saturday night that I sang, apologizing for not coming, one of his parents had just died at the time (I think his father passed) and didn’t like leaving his mother at home. But he said, what we talked about in our conversation … I’ll see you when I get back. The next thing, I walked over to the hotel one day … there was no TV in your room back then, you had to go over to a TV lounge, so I turned the TV on and found out Brian had died.”

“I’ve always thought that maybe he was on prescribed medication and then he drank. I don’t think he intentionally killed himself … that’s my opinion. But the press had a field day because it’s Brian Epstein, The Beatles Manager.”

Ray Shasho: I’ve talked with a lot of artists who played The Ed Sullivan Show, what was it like for you?

Billy J. Kramer: “Believe it or not, I wasn’t aware what a big deal it was. I think if I had known what a big deal it was I would have been terrified. We did the soundcheck in the afternoon and I met Ed Sullivan on the set and he just said, “Here’s… Billy J. Kramer & The Dakotas” and we went into music …and that was it.”

Ray Shasho: Billy, do you have a good story from back in the British Invasion days?

Billy J. Kramer: “I was doing a recording session at EMI and John Lennon came in and said, “Great song.” We had about fifteen minutes left and just knocked the track down, but don’t know why we never went back and finished it. I sat at a restaurant a few years ago and suddenly I hear this song come on over the speakers in the restaurant, and it was me doing this song with today’s technology, we had done two takes and they edited them. There was some bantering between me and John… a lot of it they left out, but at one point he said to me … “You sound like Adam Faith you fool!” (All laughing) But it was funny hearing that after all those years.”

“John Lennon had tremendous insight. I remember when The Dakotas employed this new Road Manager and setting the gear up on the stage and John said to me, “Who’s that Billy?” I said that’s The Dakotas new Road Manager. John said, “You better get rid of him before he grows on you” and you know something, awhile later, the guy pulled out after an important tour, at an important time and left everyone high and dry. Yet, John said that to me after only one meeting with the guy and it’s always blown me away. John was so spot-on … on so many things.”

Ray Shasho: Do still speak with the surviving members of The Beatles?

Billy J .Kramer: “I see Paul from time to time and he’s always been cool to me. Maybe if I was a vegetarian I’d see him more often (All laughing). The last time Ringo played on Long Island, he found out that I lived down the road and called me up and said, “Come down and see the show.” When he had his art showing in New York, I went down and hung out with him and had a chat. Ringo, to me, is a lot of fun. It’s funny, when I went to see him, my wife walked into the dressing room before me and she’s very short and the first words out of his mouth were, “Billy …you’ve changed a lot!” But he’s great! When we spoke he said, “You know, they hate me in Liverpool now.” I’m not sure what he said to the press or the media but apparently it didn’t go down so well.”

“I liked George Harrison very much too and was blown away with what he did with The Traveling Wilburys. I remember George taking me to meet Roy Orbison. I was a big fan and George introduced me to him, I was just like a little kid. But the last time I talked with George, he was doing a session with some friends of mine that he was going to produce and I went down. It was awhile before he died.”

“I had never met Yoko Ono and she got in touch with me and asked me to write an essay about my relationship with John for a book. I wrote a short essay and they never changed one word, which really surprised me.”

“I get on really well with Cynthia; we used to hang out at parties or at a launch of a new album … and I love her dearly.”  

Ray Shasho: What was the origin behind your version of “Trains and Boats and Planes”?

Billy J. Kramer: “I heard the song on a TV show. Mick Green was a great guitar player with The Dakotas at the time and never got the recognition that he deserved. I was at Mick’s house and watched this Burt Bacharach Special; we started playing around with the song and realized that we could do a version of it. We took it to George Martin and just put it together. We just tried to make a good record out of a beautiful song.”     

“In 1968, I also recorded the Harry Nilsson song, “1941”which a lot of people don’t know.”

Ray Shasho: Billy, here’s a final question. I ask everyone that I interview this very same question. If you had a ‘Field of Dreams’ wish to sing or collaborate with anyone form the past or present who would you choose?

Billy J. Kramer: “John Lennon.”

Ray Shasho: Have you recorded with John before?

Billy J. Kramer: “No, only when he came down with, “I’m In Love.” I never finished the first version, so I remade it and thought it would be a tribute to John on the new CD, and did it how I thought it should be.”

Ray Shasho: Thank you Billy for being on the call today and for all the fantastic music throughout the years. We will all be watching out for the release of the new CD.

Billy J. Kramer: “I’m very proud of what I did in the 60s and want to get out there to play the old stuff, the new stuff and continue recording, which is something that I had not done in a long time.”  

“Let’s keep banging on that door to get Brian Epstein into The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. …Thanks Ray!”

After thirty years … Billy J. Kramer will be releasing his long-awaited new CD entitled, I Won the Fight, commemorating the 50^th anniversary of his first hit record. The CD -includes the critically-acclaimed single, “To Liverpool With Love.” The CD is expected to be released sometime in late March or early April. Pre-sale-Special Limited Edition orders can be purchased now at http://billyjkramersite.com/#/presale/

Billy J. Kramer official website http://billyjkramersite.com

Brian Epstein official website and petition www.brianepstein.com/petition.html

‘The Fest’ for Beatles Fans Official site www.thefest.com

The Cruise for Beatles Fans 2013 official site www.musicinmocean.com

Very special thanks to Steve Petrie for this interview.

Contact classic rock music journalist Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com

Purchase Ray’s very special memoir called ‘Check the Gs’ -The True Story of an Eclectic American Family and Their Wacky Family Business … You’ll LIVE IT! Also available for download on NOOK or KINDLE edition for JUST .99 CENTS at amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com   -Please support Ray so he can continue to bring you quality classic rock music reporting. 

~~Pacific Book Review says Ray Shasho is a product of the second half of the 20th century, made in the USA from parts around the world, and within him is every trend in music, television, politics and culture contributing to his philosophical and comically analytical reflections collected in his fine book of memories. I found Check the Gs to be pure entertainment, fantastic fun and a catalyst to igniting so many memories of my own life, as I too am within a few years of Ray.  So to all, I say if you have a bit of grey hair (or no hair), buy this book!  It’s a great gift for your “over-the-hill” friends, or for their kids, if they are the history buffs of younger generations trying to figure out why we are the way we are.

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