-Interviewed on March 18th 2015
By Ray Shasho
David Clayton-Thomas inherited his musical savvy by
performing in clubs on Toronto’s infamous Yonge Street back in the early 60’s,
a music scene that had also launched the careers of fellow Canadians Gordon
Lightfoot and Neil Young to name just a few. Rockabilly musician Ronnie Hawkins
referred to Yonge Street as “The Promise Land.” Toronto was without racial
barriers and became a Mecca for R&B artists, which also gave them the
opportunity to perform for the first time to white audiences. At a young age,
David became heavily influenced by those rhythm and blues artists who performed
regularly in Toronto, which led to David Clayton-
Thomas becoming one of the most recognized blue-eyed soul singers in
the world.
But it would be
David’s earliest roots, his passion for Mississippi Delta Blues that helped him
move to New York and launch a brilliant career with the finest musicians. While
playing in little clubs in Toronto, blues legend John Lee Hooker frequently
performed, and David would grab his guitar in between sets and go over and sit
in with him. Thomas eventually ended up playing with Hooker in New York and
continued to live there for the next forty years.
DAVID CLAYTON-THOMAS joined Blood, Sweat & Tears in
the summer of 1968. The band was originally formed by Al Kooper and named after Johnny
Cash's 1963 album Blood, Sweat and Tears. Kooper left the group but not
before writing the B, S &T early classic “I Love You More Than You'll Ever
Know.” Kooper played on hundreds of records, including The Rolling
Stones, B. B. King, The Who, The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Alice
Cooper, and Cream. He discovered the band Lynyrd Skynyrd, and
produced and performed on their first three albums
Folk singer Judy Collins heard David Clayton-Thomas one night at a club uptown
and told her friend, drummer Bobby Colomby about him. Bobby invited David to
help rebuild his shattered band and saying … “We never heard anyone sing like
that!” They took the reformed group into the Café Au Go Go in the Village. Six
weeks later, there were lines of people around the block, waiting to get into a
club which only seated about 200 people.
David
Clayton-Thomas’ debut album with the band was simply entitled
… Blood, Sweat & Tearsand
became their most successful album to date, spawning three successive Top 5
hits in 1969 …a cover of Berry Gordy & Brenda Holloway’s “You've Made Me So Very Happy,”
the David Clayton-Thomas penned “Spinning Wheel,” and
their version of Laura Nyro's “And
When I Die.” All three singles reached #2
on Billboard’s Hot 100 chart. "Spinning Wheel" reached
#1 on the Adult Contemporary chart. The album sold more than 10-million copies
worldwide.
In 1970, Blood, Sweat
& Tears won an unprecedented (5) Grammy awards including …
Album of the Year …
Best Arrangement Accompanying Vocalist … and … Best Contemporary Instrumental
Performance.
BLOOD, SWEAT & TEARS immediate commercial
success was attributed to a brand new sound on the music scene, performed by
eight prodigious musicians that incorporated shades of rock, blues, pop, rhythm
& blues and psychedelic genres with horn arrangements and jazz
improvisation, whileDavid Clayton-Thomas’ soulful
renditions amazingly blended meticulously with the horn section. The band’s
critically-acclaim recognition led to their day three appearance at the
Woodstock Music Festival in 1969.
The band’s subsequent
albums …Blood, Sweat & Tears 3(1970)
and Blood, Sweat & Tears 4 (1971)
were well- received and commercially successful. Blood, Sweat & Tears 3
spawned the Top 40 hits … “Lucretia MacEvil” penned
by David-Clayton Thomas and the Carole King cover tune “Hi-De-Ho.” Blood,
Sweat & Tears 4 generated the Top 40 single “Go Down Gamblin’” written
by Clayton-Thomas.
David
Clayton-Thomas left the group
to pursue a solo career after their next album entitled …New Blood. (1972)
Jerry Fisher replaced Clayton-Thomas on vocals.
Clayton-Thomas
returned to Blood, Sweat & Tears in 1975 and recorded the New City album
Subsequent Blood,
Sweat & Tears albums featuring David Clayton-Thomas on lead vocals …More Than Ever (1976), Brand New Day (1977), Nuclear Blues (1980)
David, Clayton- Thomas
has sold more than 40 million records worldwide.
In 1996, David was
inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame.
In 2007, his jazz/rock
composition “Spinning Wheel” was enshrined
in the Songwriter’s Hall Of Fame.
In 2010, David
received his star on Canada’s Walk of Fame.
In 2011, Author David
Clayton-Thomas released his memoir Blood, Sweat & Tears: A
brutally truthful memoir, Clayton-Thomas reveals what it was like to headline
at Woodstock, to tour behind the Iron Curtain, to watch brilliant musicians
tear their own band apart with in-fighting, and to make his fortune only to
lose it all ... and start over again. This is a story of grit, courage, and
determination. It is, above all, a story of survival. -Available to purchase
now atamazon.com.
Today, David
Clayton-Thomas is as busy as ever … his three recent releases … Soul Ballads,Combo (An
album of classic standards) and A Blues for the New World … (3)
separate genres performed by the musical genius of David Clayton-Thomas is
available now at amazon.com.
-I gave Soul Ballads by David Clayton-Thomas (5) Stars!
I had the rare
pleasure of chatting with David Clayton-Thomas recently
about the Soul Ballads album, Blood, Sweat & Tears, The inception of
“Spinning Wheel,” The current state of the music industry, My infamous ‘Field
of Dreams’ wish question and much-much more!
Here’s my interview
with the award-winning, legendary singer & songwriter of Blood, Sweat & Tears …DAVID CLAYTON-THOMAS.
Ray
Shasho: David thank for being on the call today!
David
Clayton-Thomas: “It’s good to be with you Ray.”
Ray
Shasho: It’s funny, I chatted with Al Kooper back in September of 2014,
and the very first thing he said to me when he answered the phone was … Have
you just been talking with David Clayton-Thomas? … I swear, true story!
David
Clayton-Thomas: “The strange thing is that Al Kooper and
I really don’t know each other. He was gone from the band when I joined and we
went out on the road and were on different paths. I think he lives down in
Nashville now. When we met it was very quickly and casually backstage once or
twice. So I really don’t know Al.”
Ray
Shasho: David, I really enjoyed listening to Soul Ballads.
David
Clayton-Thomas: “Thank you very much, we put a lot of
love and care into it, and a lot of trepidation too, those are very hard songs
to follow, when you’re doing a song by Ray Charles or Otis Redding, you’d
better bring your ‘A’ game because those records were done beautifully.”
Ray
Shasho: A track off Soul Ballads which I thought may
have been particularly difficult to sing is “Midnight Train to Georgia.”
David
Clayton-Thomas: “I idolized
Gladys Knight, and that was one of the first tunes that I picked for the album.
I thought …I’ve got to do that song.”
Ray
Shasho: I haven’t really heard many artists cover that song; I think Neil
Diamond and Aretha Franklin may have done it?
David
Clayton-Thomas: “Gladys is a
tough act to follow; there are artists who put their stamp on a certain song
and nobody wants to even touch it … Ray Charles, “Georgia on my Mind” …that
song has been done, unless you can do it any better, but who can do it better
than Ray Charles?”
Ray
Shasho: David, you also did an excellent version of
“People Get Ready,” an R&B classic penned by Cutis Mayfield when he was
with The Impressions.
David
Clayton-Thomas: “Those songs are
old friends for me, I grew up singing R&B here on Yonge Street and those
were our repertoire. My old piano player Lou Pomanti who was with me with
Blood, Sweat & Tears for about five years, and now he’s a big producer
around here, he’d just got finished writing all the arrangements for the
Michael Bublé album and he prevailed on me one more time, he said, “Come on
man, we’ve got to do an album with those songs!” The hardest part was figuring
out which of those songs worked, because once we started coming up with ideas,
we sat there with about thirty five songs and only ten could go on an album. So
the hardest part was what we weren’t going to do. I’ve got to say; those songs
came very-very easy to me because I sang them five shows a night, six nights a
week for years. That was my repertoire when I first started out; I idolized all
of those artists, so I don’t think there is a song on the album that I haven’t
sung about a dozen times before. You know it’s funny; I didn’t even take lyric
sheets to the studio because I knew the songs so well. But you know everyone
can sing those songs … (“Sittin’On) the Dock of the Bay” … everyone can sing
that.”
Ray
Shasho: Track eleven on Soul Ballads, “You’ve Really Got A Hold On Me” by
the great Smokey Robinson, had a sort of jazzy spin to it?
David
Clayton-Thomas: “When we started looking back at these songs
and listening to the original recordings, we were pretty amazed how badly they
were recorded. But it didn’t matter because the soul came through. Remember,
they were probably recorded on a little four track machine, they weren’t the
greatest musicians in the world, I know on the Bobby Hebb tune “Sunny” the
horns were so out of tune that it made my teeth hurt. But it didn’t matter. We
have the advantage now of using a 21st century recording studio with digital editing
and hundreds and hundreds of tracks if we wanted, and really top notch
musicians. It was quite a labor of love making that record and I’m so glad it’s
coming out in the states now.”
Ray
Shasho: Soul Ballads featured an incredible array of musicians …
David
Clayton-Thomas: My buddies from up here in Toronto, half the
guys in the rhythm section and horns of that band play in my regular band.
We’ve got some really good talent up here in Canada.”
Ray
Shasho: Besides you … I’ve interviewed many Canadian
music legends …Randy Bachman, Burton Cummings, Frank Marino, Gino Vannelli and
the list goes on …but Canada has produced so many great comedians and actors as
well.
David
Clayton-Thomas: “If you go to Hollywood in LA there’s a whole
Canadian community out there, Mike Myers and that whole gang, especially in
theater and comedy … Jim Carrey, it’s just a whole enclave of Canadians in LA.
Belushi and the Aykroyd Boys all came from Chicago, but The Firesign Theatre
and Second City Television was really up here in Toronto, and that’s what
really formed the very first Saturday Night Live. The Producer Lorne Michaels
is a Canadian and when he first started he brought everybody down from Toronto
to start that show.”
Ray
Shasho: You had a close relationship
with John Lee Hooker in those early days.
David
Clayton-Thomas: “It was John who basically brought me to New
York the first time. My earliest roots were Mississippi Delta Blues artists
like John Lee Hooker, Lightnin’ Hopkins, Robert Johnson … and the blues were my
entrance into music. Playing in little clubs here in Toronto, John Lee Hooker
used to come up here and play all the time, so I would grab my guitar in
between sets and go over and sit in with him. It ended up me going to New York
and playing with him. I ended up living there for forty years.”
Ray
Shasho: You’ve written a memoir entitled … Blood,
Sweat & Tears?
David
Clayton-Thomas: “The book and the Soul Ballads album were kind
of tied together, because while the book was coming out in October of 2010, it
was also announced that I was getting my star in the Canadian Hall of Fame. So
I had pressure coming to me from the book publisher and from the record company
who said, you’ve got to get a new album out because you’ve got all this stuff
going on in the fall. I had just finished the book and I’ve got to tell you…I
was pretty much written out! It takes a year and a half to two years to write a
book, and during that time you’re not writing many songs. Writing a book for me
was kind of a one-time thing, I just wanted to put a postscript on all of those
Blood, Sweat & Tears years and wrapped it up and tie a bow on it, and say
here’s what happened and here’s how it was … and move on.”
“But like I said, I
was getting pressure from both sides to get a new album out and that’s when I
called Lou Pomanti, I said, you know you’ve been bugging me for years to do
this album, I think the time is right. I don’t have any original material ready
to go and we need an album three months from now. I said can we do it? He said,
sure we can!”
Ray
Shasho: David, what year did you join Blood, Sweat
& Tears?
David Clayton-Thomas:
“In the summer of 1968. We recorded the album over the course of that summer,
it was released in October and by Christmas it was the number one album in the
world.”
Ray
Shasho: The album was a huge commercial success and spawned (3)
consecutive Top 5 singles. It also won a Grammy Award for ‘Album of the Year.’
How did a newly reconstructed Blood, Sweat & Tears achieve commercial
success right out of the gate?
David
Clayton-Thomas: “We had the top musicians in New York, who
weren’t generally known to the public, but these were the ‘A’ team guys … Bobby
Colomby, Randy Brecker… these are great-great musicians! But I think the
musical climate was different then. Today it seems that everybody wants to put
out records to please the marketing guys and it sounds like everything else on
the radio. In the 60’s it was a different philosophy, we came into an era that
was mostly big power rock bands like Hendrix, The Who, Cream … and we came out
of left field with Julliard graduates playing trombones, trumpets and flutes
with Basie-Ellington types of arrangements and very much a New York City band.
We succeeded so quickly because it was so different, there was nothing like it
out there. And in those days was a bonus. Blood, Sweat & Tears were serious
musicians and all of a sudden they were playing to 22,000 screaming people at
Madison Square Garden. It was a great band and had a great run. I’m very proud
of it.”
“Today, I think doing
something completely different is almost career suicide. The Record industry is
another oxymoron along with jumbo shrimp, it’s pretty much gone. When was the
last time you saw a record store? It’s been going for the last several years
and I watched it go, and in some ways I’m kind of glad. Remember when the old
studio system dissolved in Hollywood and all of these wonderful independent
films came out. They weren’t governed by the big corporate bureaucracies. In
some ways, the artist has been under the thumb of the record company or the
whim of the record company for so many years. I’ve talked with some of the
early guys who invented rock and roll like Chuck Berry …Little Richard …Fats
Domino …and these guys signed lifetime record contracts for a new Cadillac and
never saw a royalty check ever. I think that the new internet freedom that we
have now … we only communicate with record companies that can communicate in
21st century language, like CD Baby, Spotify and iTunes, because that’s where
people are going for their music now. The only places left for selling CD’S are
like Walmart, Costco or something, and they only sell the Top 10… you’ll get
your Justin Bieber, Rihanna and Lady Gaga, but there’s hardly any new music
coming into that. So it’s left the artist to do what he knows best and that’s
create and go directly to his fans, and you can do that all over the internet.”
Ray
Shasho: “Are companies like Spotify paying royalties
to the artists like they should?
David
Clayton-Thomas: “Its took us a
hundred years to build up a system of copyright to protect music and then
the internet came along and they just threw it out the window, there was no
real laws to govern it. It is happening; unfortunately the laws move a lot
slower than the technology. But we’re working on it … it will all come around.
The record industry may be in deep dookie but the music business is doing just
fine. In fact, I think it’s doing better than ever because of the creativity.”
Ray
Shasho: I’d like to talk about your classic hit with Blood, Sweat &
Tears … “Spinning Wheel” (1969) … I chatted with Engelbert Humperdinck before
our interview and Engelbert recently recorded “Spinning Wheel” for his
latest duets album called … Engelbert Calling.
David
Clayton-Thomas: “Yea, he did it with Gene Simmons. I go way
back with Engelbert; I’ve known him for quite some time and have a lot of
friends in common in Germany. I’ve done a lot of work in Germany over the years
and have a lot of mutual friends over there. But when somebody called me up and
said I just heard “Spinning Wheel” by Gene Simmons … I go are you kidding? (All
laughing) Kiss is doing “Spinning Wheel?” I don’t believe it!”
Ray
Shasho: “Talk about the inception of “Spinning Wheel”
… when we think of the 60’s, I think most people would say “Spinning Wheel” is
in the top of their list.
David
Clayton-Thomas: “Yea and it was
played at Woodstock and released that same year in 1969, so it’s kind of
engrained in a lot of people’s memory. This is a song that I wrote up here in
Canada two years before I joined Blood, Sweat & Tears and tried to get it
recorded. I did a demo of it, but tried to do a real record of it and was
turned down by every record company in the country. They said, what is this …
it sounds like jazz …we can’t sell jazz! So that was the prevailing wisdom back
then. Then I came down and found the right combination of musicians and
recorded it in New York and the rest is history as they say.
Record executives
follow trends … Artists set trends. That’s the way it’s always been, especially
now that the industry is running out of money and basically going broke, and a
lot of the talent has left. When is the last time you saw an A&R man at a
record company? That post doesn’t exist anymore. Record companies are basically
distributorships now. They could be selling toothpaste or hand soap …they’re
just units to be moved and not really a connection with the music. That’s why a
lot of artists, even senior artists like myself are moving away from the record
industry. Except for Nashville, the days when a record company used to make or
break an artist are over.”
Ray
Shasho: Groups like Blood, Sweat & Tears &
Chicago were pleasantly dissimilar when they arrived on the music scene … a
prodigious ensemble performing a phenomenal blend of rock, jazz and psychedelic
music.
David
Clayton-Thomas: “What happens in
the record industry … as soon as something comes along that’s different, within
a year they’ve cloned it half a dozen times. The same producer that produced
the first Blood, Sweat & Tears record with me … we went on the road to
promote it, and while we went on the road he produced three Chicago albums.
(All laughing) And then everybody had to have a horn band in those days. By the
year Blood, Sweat & Tears broke … you had Tower of Power, Chicago, Ides of
March, Chase … there was horn bands coming out of the woodwork.”
Ray
Shasho: Frank Zappa’s Mothers of Invention were also early innovators for
using horns in a rock band.
David
Clayton-Thomas: “Well yea … as a
matter of fact I had lunch the day before yesterday with a gentleman by the
name of Jim Fielder. Jim was the original bass player in Blood, Sweat &
Tears and he has been with Neil Sedaka for the last thirty years. When I first
met Jim Fielder he was the bass player for The Mothers of Invention with
Aynsley Dunbar and Frank Zappa …playing at the Garrick Theatre in New York
City, next door to the Café Au Go Go where Blood, Sweat & Tears played. So
Jim came over to Blood, Sweat & Tears. There’s a picture on my website of
me and Frank Zappa jamming away on guitars … just a tremendously creative guy.”
Ray
Shasho: Dave, are you going to hit the road again anytime soon?
David
Clayton-Thomas: “Not
really on the road, my days of being on the road are over. I am coming down to
the states and doing some concerts this year. I like to pick events. Last year
I came down and did the St. Louis Blues Festival and did the Toronto Jazz
Festival here with Earth, Wind & Fire and Chaka Khan, and two nights at
Massey Hall with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra, but that’s not being on the
road, that’s doing things you really want to do. Being on the road is when you
go out for 150 days at a time and half the gigs are to pay for gas …that’s
being on the road. (All laughing) I did that for 40 years and I won’t do that
anymore. The record company that put out Soul Ballads also books a lot of
concerts and they’ve already asked me if I’d come down and do a few spots this
year, and I’d love to do that.”
Ray
Shasho: Do you enjoy performing with a live symphony orchestra?
David
Clayton-Thomas: “It’s
one thing I do. The new album that I just finished is called Combo. It’s a
small quintet and we play all acoustic, it’s a very unplugged and very intimate
kind of album. It’s really great to sing in that kind of environment. On the
other hand when you’re playing with a symphony orchestra and you hear 80 pieces
strike up the opening to “God Bless the Child,” you wouldn’t be human if your
hair didn’t stand up in back of your head. (All laughing) The last few
years I’ve been doing concerts with a 10-piece band, Blood, Sweat & Tears
was only eight pieces. So this year we’ll cut it back a little because of the
new album and play more intimate concerts. Of all the places I’ve played
… from Carnegie Hall to Royal Albert Hall to Madison Square Garden … my
favorite place is still an 800 to 1000 seat performing arts center. Where the
people are sitting in nice plush seats and relaxed and you have a beautiful
stage with nice production, great lights, and the audience is three feet away,
you can reach out and touch them. That’s my favorite place to play.”
Ray
Shasho: Producer/songwriter/musician James William Guercio produced your
classic debut album with Blood, Sweat & Tears; he also worked with The
Buckinghams, Chicago and Beach Boys to name a few. He was obviously a
successful producer, why didn’t he work with the band again after that first
album?
David
Clayton-Thomas: “The makeup of Blood, Sweat & Tears,
except for the songwriters, everybody made 100% of their living by going on the
road, and that included the agents, promoters and people in our front office.
We went from being basically a Greenwich Village street band making five
hundred bucks a night split nine ways, to all of a sudden, tens of thousands of
dollars a night pouring in. So Blood, Sweat & Tears basically went on the
road for three years until finally our manager called a halt to it and said,
look, you guys have been out there for three years, while your all out there
touring all over the world and making tons of money, Jimmy Guercio has made
three Chicago albums in that time. (All laughing) So we decided that we needed
to get more products in the can and make some more albums. So we went in and
recorded B, S &T 3 and B, S &T 4 in basically consecutive years. If you
notice between the first Blood, Sweat & Tears album and second B, S &T
album, there is a three year gap. We were in Australia, South America, Russia …
you name it and we were there.”
Ray
Shasho: Dave you’ve written several great tunes with
the band, any regrets for not having written more songs?
David
Clayton-Thomas: “Not
particularly …I’m not a singer who only sings his own songs; I’m not a Bob
Dylan, I write a few songs that happen to fit me. I enjoy just as much doing
Soul Ballads and singing those great iconic Otis Redding, Sam Cooke, Ray
Charles and Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes songs. I’m first a singer and a
songwriter second.”
“The Toronto music
scene is heavily R&B oriented and the reason for that being is, back in the
60’s when we young Canadian musicians were growing up, and I’m talking about
people like Burton Cummings, Randy Bachman, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell … there
was a color bar in the states, if you were a black band and worked in Detroit
you worked black clubs. They wouldn’t even allow mixed bands, you couldn’t even
have a white guy in your band or a white band couldn’t have a black guy in it.
What happened was because of our proximity to all those great towns, all those
great R&B artists from Chicago and Detroit came up to Canada. There was no
color bar up here. Up here they played in all the finest clubs and were idolized.
Those great R&B artists loved to go to England and to Canada because there
was no racism here. The first time I heard Eric Clapton, I said this guy has
been listening to Chicago Blues … well of course; all the black artists would
go over and play in England and would develop a huge following there, everyone
from The Beatles to the Stones were heavily influenced by the Black American
artists.”
Ray
Shasho: David, here’s a question that I ask everyone
that I interview. If you had a ‘Field of Dreams’ wish like the movie, to sing
or collaborate with anyone from the past or present, who would that be?
David
Clayton-Thomas: “I’ve been very lucky because I’ve already
collaborated with everyone who I’d want to collaborate with … I would have
loved to sit down and sing with Ray Charles, I did get to sing with Aretha
Franklin on a number of different occasions and she’s another one of my idols.
There are a few young bands … I saw a Bruno Mars show a couple of months ago
and he kicks ass … that’s a serious old school R&B artist.”
Ray
Shasho: David, thank you so much for being on the call today and for all
the incredible music you’ve given us with Blood, Sweat & Tears and all the
great music you continue to bring!
David
Clayton-Thomas: “It’s been a
pleasure talking with you Ray.”
Very special thanks to Anne Leighton PR *Media * Music Services *
Motivation
Purchase David Clayton-Thomas’ latest releases … Soul Ballads, Combo and A
Blues for the New World … (3)
separate genres performed by the musical genius of David Clayton-Thomas,
available now at amazon.com.
Soul
Ballads …
Track
List
Midnight Train To Georgia
Midnight Train To Georgia
A Change Is Gonna Come
People Get Ready
If You Don`t Know Me By Now
Sunny
I`ve Been Lovin` You Too Long
Dock Of The Bay
Ruby
When Something Is Wrong With My Baby
You Don`t Know Me
You Really Got A Hold On Me
When A Man Loves A Woman
People Get Ready
If You Don`t Know Me By Now
Sunny
I`ve Been Lovin` You Too Long
Dock Of The Bay
Ruby
When Something Is Wrong With My Baby
You Don`t Know Me
You Really Got A Hold On Me
When A Man Loves A Woman
Combo …
Track
List
As Time Goes By
Nature Boy
Summertime
Stormy Monday Blues
The Glory Of Love
Freedom for the
Stallion
God Bless the Child
September Song
Stardust
When I Fall In Love
Smile
Purchase Author David Clayton-Thomas’ memoir …
Blood, Sweat & Tears at
Amazon.com
COMING
UP … An interview
with vocalist/author JOE BONSALL
of the legendary … ‘OAK RIDGE BOYS’ and guitar legend/singer/producer
…
DAVE
EDMUNDS (Rockpile).
Contact music
journalist/author Ray Shasho at rockraymond.shasho@gmail.com
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